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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#36301: Mar 22nd 2016 at 12:49:16 PM

I mean, you could easily blame Superman winning on people running the asylum and exaggerating his strength to the point where he actually does become a Marty Stu. Comic writers do this all the time. That's how we get Wolverine regenerating from a drop of blood.

edited 22nd Mar '16 12:49:48 PM by AdricDePsycho

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#36302: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:30:01 PM

No, Wolverine's healing factor being jacked up by a MacGuffin, the Crystal of Ultimate Vision, which made another character invincible and immortal is how we got him regenerating from a drop of blood. There was context surrounding that feat.

edited 22nd Mar '16 1:31:15 PM by TobiasDrake

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#36303: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:31:15 PM

OK then, are there any other moments where Wolverine's healing factor was exaggerated from his original depiction in Claremont's comics?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#36304: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:33:06 PM

The biggest example I can think of is during Civil War, when Nitro exploded in his face and reduced him to just his adamantium skeleton. I can't think of any extenuating circumstances for that incident.

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#36305: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:34:27 PM

I think the big problem is that Superman has gone through many different writers that are often inconsistent on his strength, but Goku has only ever had one writer (outside of Toei's filler).

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#36306: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:38:19 PM

Goku never had a Silver Age either. The closest he came was Early-Installment Weirdness involving shit like an evil rabbit who turns things into carrots.

Superman, on the other hand, was doing shit like hauling multiple planets across the universe on a chain which contributed to the idea of him being infinitely powerful. Superman's early writers sort of wrote him like One Punch Man; dramatic battles with equally strong foes weren't really the point of the character.

edited 22nd Mar '16 1:39:55 PM by TobiasDrake

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#36307: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:40:09 PM

I think regenerating from an adamantium skeleton is actually worse than regenerating from a drop of blood. At least the blood has your DNA in it. The adamantium is just a hunk of metal.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#36308: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:43:04 PM

In the writer's defense, the adamantium is just a coating. There are actual bones under it.

In his offense, the adamantium should logically work both ways. There is no conceivable way the bones could regenerate a body without breaking the unbreakable metal.

Some writers try really hard to dance around the fact that Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is not a part of his biology.

edited 22nd Mar '16 1:44:04 PM by TobiasDrake

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#36309: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:44:26 PM

How are the bones alive beneath the metal?

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#36310: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:44:58 PM

Well, bones kinda need to have holes for the blood vessels to go in, and the like...

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
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#36311: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:22:58 PM

Maybe there's more than just bones under the adamantium. Maybe some veins run under it?

Anyway, the thing that most people forget about that Death Battle is that they were deliberately using the characters at their absolute strongest, which is why they had stuff like SSJ 4 Goku from GT. The problem with that is that if you take every feat that post-crisis Superman has achieved, you'll quickly realize that comic book writers really have no idea how physics actually work, and that they have no sense of scale, thus Superman's absolutely insane feats of strength and speed, mostly because the writers continue to try and one-up one another, whether it be in a superpowered arms race between Superman and Captain Marvel (No, I'm not calling him Shazam, he's fucking Captain Marvel) or simply having to make the villain bigger and badder than the one that came before.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#36312: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:25:06 PM

To be fair, anime and manga writers aren't much better at understanding either physics or scale.

edited 22nd Mar '16 2:25:17 PM by TobiasDrake

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#36313: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:33:46 PM

Also, as I explained earlier, Superman having feats that put his strength at infinity completely destroys the entire DC Universe. Those kinds of feats are few and far between and really should be disregarded.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#36314: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:54:54 PM

Given my somewhat limited knowledge of Superman, I think would he would win. Superman has crazy endurance and is healed and powered by the sun. Goku may not be able to do enough damage to Supes to win. At the same time, if Goku could limit Supes exposer to sunlight, that would be something. Like teleporting him to a planet with a red sun. One of Superman's biggest limitations is that he's only as strong as the sun he's under. Goku is also a career martial artist while Superman, while trained by Batman and Wonder Woman, doesn't train like that. Speed, I give Goku a slight edge since, although Superman has more raw speed, Goku reflexes should be much sharper. This was actually brought up when Wonder Woman told Superman that she's faster than him because of her reflexes and Batman back her.

But it really comes down who is writing Superman. As one troper said, some writers go with, 'I can't lose, I'm Superman'.

The manga/anime have no sense of scale, but only a few pulls Silver Age stunts. The closest we have in Dragon Ball is Vados when she was hauling Super Dragon Balls.

edited 22nd Mar '16 3:00:43 PM by Ramona122003

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#36315: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:04:58 PM

Death Battle made it a point not to use Pre-Crisis Superman because they knew how overpowered that'd make him, but even then the writers of Superman eventually made him so powerful that there was no way Goku could win. Kind of ironic, because the John Byrne post-crisis reboot was made explicitly to make sure he didn't become too overpowered again.

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Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#36316: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:16:06 PM

Power creep and power seep and all. Goku, and his powers and limits are fairly consistent, outside some stunts. Superman is all over the place on the powers scale.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#36317: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:28:24 PM

One could make the argument that it is asinine to even use characters from DC or Marvel in Vs battles, considering how inconsistent they are. Unfortunately, that idea removes 20% of all fictional characters from the equation. The solution: get REALLY specific whenever you pit a comic book character against anything else about which version of that character you're using.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#36318: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:30:30 PM

Well,DBS Goku and BOG Goku do differ quite a bit too.One can destroy the universe.The other can't.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#36319: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:33:49 PM

The second Goku vs. Superman was before Super aired, and after what happened in it I doubt they'll do it again. It's an annoying argument that can't die.

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Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#36320: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:47:55 PM

I do remember some fans crying foul when that Superman was a composite character while Goku was the same character outside of having Super Saiyan 4, something he didn't have in the manga. Basically, they took the best of Superman outside the Silver Age and had him fight Goku. So of course he lost.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#36321: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:52:31 PM

Well they kind of had to do a composite because of how inconsistent he's been written. And they let Goku use Super Saiyan 4 because, at that point in time, GT was still considered (dubiously) canon.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#36322: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:59:03 PM

[up][up]Well, I mean, there aren't exactly any other continuities to draw feats from for Goku, unless we're talking also using the live action movies as references.

Superman in general just doesn't really work for "Vs." It's like trying to debate One Punch Man in a fictional fight. It goes counter to the actual point of the character.

edited 22nd Mar '16 4:05:58 PM by Lionheart0

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#36323: Mar 22nd 2016 at 4:06:32 PM

Some fans argue that they should have used the most recent form of Superman. But since I only know comic Superman in passing, I don't know how powerful Superman was at the time.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#36324: Mar 22nd 2016 at 4:10:33 PM

[up]That's the thing though, if you have to make arbitrary cut off points for Superman just to level the playing field, that's already the indicator who the winner is.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#36325: Mar 22nd 2016 at 4:12:37 PM

Comic book characters in general are really suited for this thing unless pitted against other comic book characters, I've noticed.

It's probably most extreme in this case but I noticed it was pretty ridiculous in others as well. I've looked at some of these and picked the winner based on if they were from Marvel or DC and their opponent wasn't.

edited 22nd Mar '16 4:13:06 PM by LSBK


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