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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#36101: Mar 19th 2016 at 7:40:05 PM

Hoi hoi hoi hoi!

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Demetrios Making darkness adorable since 1999 from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Reservoir A former adventurer... from Eastern US Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
A former adventurer...
#36103: Mar 19th 2016 at 8:14:34 PM

[up][up][up]Speaking of Fusions, I've always wondered how well each differing technique would work together. I mean, could a few Namekians do their fusion, then Potarra fuse with someone else, then do the Fusion Dance with a third(fourth?) party?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#36104: Mar 19th 2016 at 8:18:54 PM

Presumably, yes.

I think it might be screwy if you do it in another order, though. Say, two people using the Metamorese fusion dance and then Namekian Fusion or Potara on top of that, because the Fusion Dance is timed.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Reservoir A former adventurer... from Eastern US Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
A former adventurer...
#36105: Mar 19th 2016 at 8:23:50 PM

Yeah, that's why I worded it so specifically, since I imagine the Dance being timed would wonk up the other ones if done first.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36106: Mar 19th 2016 at 10:10:33 PM

Man, Vegeta didn't not mess around with Frost.

@Soble: It's an alternate universe though, i don't mind the lack of tails in that sort of context.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#36107: Mar 19th 2016 at 10:37:04 PM

Dragon Ball Fusions Scan/Translation

CAC confirmed, with Humans (Male/Female), Saiyans (Male/Female), Aliens AKA Jeice/Salsa's race (Male/Female), Spirit Worldians (Male Majin/Female Kai) and Namekians.

Odd that Changelings, Female Majin or Male Kai aren't in DBF, but whatever.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36108: Mar 19th 2016 at 10:41:41 PM

That's unfortunate. I loved the Female Majin in Xenoverse.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#36109: Mar 19th 2016 at 10:56:27 PM

While it is unfortunate, it does bid a glimmer of hope to more races for Xenoverse 2.

The Kai and Android races from DBH plus the Alien race from DBF (hopefully with a Zarbon-esque transformation) would be neat additions.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#36110: Mar 19th 2016 at 11:32:52 PM

Project Fusion actually sounds like a lot of fun with all the RPG elements. It seems like there's more opportunities for customisation than Xenoverse.

The only problem is we haven't seen the combat yet, have we?

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#36111: Mar 19th 2016 at 11:45:25 PM

Well, there's one screenshot in the scan that looks like it's combat. It has the Human CAC with Kid Goku, Goten, Kid Trunks and Pan by his side. It seems to be a 5-member party, which kinda reminds me of DBH.

Also, just saw the latest DBS, all I have to say is One Punch Vegeta, Badass Hit and Crazy Awesome Magetta.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36113: Mar 20th 2016 at 6:31:39 AM

Spoilers for latest episode:

Apparently Goku will be competing again in the tournament due to his loss being undone. But Piccolo forfeited, so he's still out.

Vegeta beat Frost in one hit, which was completely pointless.

edited 20th Mar '16 6:32:02 AM by Saiga

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#36114: Mar 20th 2016 at 6:33:36 AM

No complaints about Frost going down like that from me.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36115: Mar 20th 2016 at 6:40:28 AM

My only complaint is that it needed to happen at all if that was going to be the result. It's a waste of time over just disqualifying him.

The dude was introduced just this arc and I can't care about him enough to think that's cathartic or just. It just seems petty and Vegeta stroking his ego.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#36116: Mar 20th 2016 at 6:52:05 AM

Is Vegeta writing this?

18 as reward.

The part of me that likes narrative structure thinks there are a lot of good points there about character development.

The part of me that is more inclined towards feminist critique is still uneasy about the fact that it's more about developing Krillin than it is about 18.

And, y'know, the usual gender politics of Dragon Ball.

edited 20th Mar '16 6:55:34 AM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36117: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:00:32 AM

Also, Toriyama didn't know about Goku's return or Kuririn being turned to stone when he decided to make 18 Kuririn's love interest.

Which more or less leaves the "reward" angle.

I find that a very disingenuous way of responding to the quote, by the way. Toriyama doesn't need to use the EXACT word reward to convey the same problematic meaning, and just disproving the exact use of a word does nothing to address the crux of the problem.

edit: Kuririn also only showed romantic inclinations with 18. Yeah, he got into martial arts to impress women, but that was back when he was a sleaze and that was a very impure motive. If his affection for 18 is meant to build off that same mentality, that suggests a lack of character development. I would have thought that he would have grown out of such immature views of women, but the way he acts with 18 suggests otherwise.

Shenron's not a deity. Shenron's abilities are explicitly limited to those of his creator.

Beerus's power is specifically destroying things. It's his sphere, his domain, what he embodies.

So. I don't think wishes for immortality would be able to stand up to Beerus.

The fight thing I thought of was -

Shenron: "Your wish has been granted. You now cannot be killed, except by beings who are stronger than you!"

Vegeta: "Oh, fuck"

Though that's not how it would work. It'd be anyone stronger than God.[lol]

The manga version's out? Also, what's the problem?

Well, not in English. I'm guessing the problem is the same issue I had with it: it's just a plain hand-to-hand battle, where Piccolo doesn't use strategy, he's just winning because Frost has low stamina. Nothing really fancy here either.

But the people Goku knows and the attitude of surpassing his limits and learning more and more about martial arts is more important than that.

The very concept of a low class Saiyan rivaling an Elite is something Vegeta considers impossible, but, as a result of Goku's willingness to train to surpass himself, with Roshi, and Korin, and Kami and King Kai, he's able to hold his own against Vegeta, and his friends are able to get Vegeta to go away.

The only problem is that Earth's training left Goku far inferior to his low-class brother, and he had to train with someone completely unrelated to Earth to reach their level. In the same gravity Saiyans grew up in.

And the next time they meet, Goku's trained and Vegeta hasn't. And Goku's way above Vegeta.

Until Vegeta eats a Senzu bean, and is way above Goku thanks to Saiyan biology. And then Goku gets beat up, and thanks to his Saiyan biology gets a power-up that completely dwarfs the benefits of his training.

edited 20th Mar '16 7:02:43 AM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#36118: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:02:44 AM

I don't get why you would have a feminist fit.

18, herself, is not treated as a reward for Krillin. It's true that his marriage was a sort of 'reward', but it's not like he was given a submissive waifu.

The 'reward' wasn't a wife, the reward was the possibility of meeting a woman who he liked and who liked him in return. Or, in other words, the reward was the chance to find happiness with someone else - not the someone else herself.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36119: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:06:40 AM

[up][up]

I'm with you.

Now that he puts it that way, I'm glad it's about character development, but what about 18 in the equation.

She gets a joke fight against Goten and Trunks and that's it. Then again, Toriyama kept upping the power levels to make her irrelevant anyway. But there are still things he can do with her.

The series hasn't even mentioned her real name; it's something we had to learn from an interview.

Hell, why not tell the story of how Gero captured and modified 17 and 18 so we can learn a bit more about them. There's still lots of stuff he can do with her.

Edit: [up] This is a good point. I think that Unnoun, like myself is annoyed that it's still more about Krillin then 18. But that's just my guess, because I don't presume to speak for her.

edited 20th Mar '16 7:07:51 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36120: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:08:12 AM

"Let me fight instead, it's the only recourse that makes any sense"

"No, you must make dinner"

"You're so cool!"

Above: not a submissive waifu.

But in all srslyness she's more like a personality-less waifu than a submissive one. She can't even emote moe.

And saying his reward wasn't a wife but the chance of one is a pretty pointless distinction - especially since we didn't see their relationship develop in any meaningful way. It's effectively the same thing if we never see him need to do anything once given the chance.

edit: And yeah, at the very least 18's side of the relationship isn't explored at all. Which is a pretty big thing.

For the record I like her 25th Budokai subplot because even though her motivation was for her family, Kuririn isn't around for it and she's acting completely of her own accord. She had a bigger role than her husband there and it didn't revolve around their relationship.

And that will almost certainly never happen again.

edited 20th Mar '16 7:11:28 AM by Saiga

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#36121: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:14:47 AM

If Frieza had killed Oolong everyone would have just laughed because no one feels any deep emotional connection to him.

No, it still wouldn't have been funny.

Now, if Frieza had killed Oolong and then taken a moment to help himself to some delicious Oolong bacon, THAT would have been fucking hilarity.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#36122: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:19:18 AM

Can you please not call it a fit? And maybe treat my views as nuanced and deserving of respect?

EDIT: In the same Gravity the Saiyans grew up in Goku became twice as strong as Nappa.

The very idea of training with someone and being trained by someone isn't something Vegeta did until Whis. It's a concept Vegeta and Goku learned on Earth.

edited 20th Mar '16 7:23:10 AM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#36123: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:22:03 AM

also if I weren't a feminist I'd still think Kuririn and 18's relationship is terribly written

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#36124: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:44:14 AM

The movie being bullshit and stupid doesn't really matter - stupid is stupid, even beyond the fact that it was a display of Japan's casual sexism that they don't even realize is sexism. Sexist or not, even if the genders were inverted, it'd still be incredibly stupid writing, and they didn't take the easiest out they could, by having Krillin justify it by telling her that she is stronger than him and therefore she should be looking after Marron, because looking after Marron is actually more important than going out to help - mostly because Goku or Vegeta could wipe out every invader in the world in the blink of an eye.

As for it being about Krillin and not 18... well, Krillin has been in the manga for a very long time. He's been a major character for a long time. Did you seriously expect his wife, who's a secondary character at best, to be the focus of the relationship? It really comes down to that, more than their genders. Granted, I can totally see Toriyama focusing on the male side of the relationship than he would on the female half if it had been the other way around, but that's got more to do with the casual sexism I mentioned before.

I'll agree that the relationship was not handled anywhere near as well as it should have been - hell, TFS, doing their gag dub, did better developing that relationship, and isn't that fucking depressing - but at least it's nowhere near as bad as your average harem, and that's why I'm making the distinction. Maybe I shouldn't compare it to how poorly shounen manga handle relationships, but the fact that I've seen far, far worse kinda changes my perspective on it.

edited 20th Mar '16 7:52:32 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#36125: Mar 20th 2016 at 7:50:29 AM

Well another thing about keeping 18 out of fights is that her inexhaustible stamina means her opponents have to have bullshit powers to even the playing field, otherwise she inevitably stomps them.

Whether it happens right away, or sometime later in the fight, she would eventually win a battle of attrition.

Plus she has no Ki to sense , so characters who rely on that are at a disadvantage, and since the series is heavily built on Ki, they'd be in trouble. While it may be giving him too much credit, Toriyama may have pushed her to the background so that he didn't need to constantly think up good opponents for her to fight....accept he wouldn't anyway because she's a girl.

edited 20th Mar '16 7:50:44 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

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