TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35651: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:04:14 PM

Yes, but does that criticism actually amount to anything at all; I honestly don't see the reason for criticism of this at all, since it's really not going to do anything. Honestly, criticism to me just seems to have the underlying message that "I can do better than this," when really, you have no damn clue that you could actually do better; for all people know they could actually make something even worse.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:17:13 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35652: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:10:00 PM

Gojira, you can't be serious.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35653: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:11:11 PM

No, you know what, not going to engage at all.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:11:25 PM by Arha

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35654: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:12:57 PM

And thaaaaaat just went completely off the rails there.

Criticism isn't just about saying one can personally do better, and to be honest there's no point making a generalization like that or lumping me in with all viewers.

Does criticizing one aspect of one of Toriyama's works mean I think I can do better than him in everything? Of course not.

You yourself just claimed Super did the scene better, by having Goku drop down to base. Since you can think of one thing that makes it better, does that now mean you think you can do better than Toriyama? I hope not.

People can have preferences to things, and be aware of that, without thinking they're superior for it.

That said I could totally make a better movie than Resurrection F - which is more about how much RF is a pile of shit than my own perceived ability as a writer.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35655: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:13:22 PM

Honestly, my view has always been to roll with the punches; I just can't really get mad at most things unless it ends up being really offensive, though Black Comedy is a thing with me because of CAH...

[up][up][up] I blame 5 years of reading fanfiction, Naruto fanfiction. Nothing from Dragon Ball, or even actual Naruto, has ever been as low on the scale as some of that stuff...

edited 11th Mar '16 8:14:02 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35656: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:14:02 PM

It didn't simplified it at all. Beerus tells Goku that his softness towards Frieza allows him to win, along with dropping his guard. And you shouldn't dismiss someone's opinion as just being a small group of fans and the person who never read the manga doesn't count. Rather you agree with them or not, Goku does come off as cocky to people. So the whole 'Goku gets cocky after a power boast', didn't come out of nowhere since you can go back into the manga and see where it comes from. Again, rather you agree with it is another matter, but it is there.

To me, a blast that destroys an island is more powerful than a random mouth blast from an opponent that used so much energy in there last attack that they get their butts handed to them not even a minute later. But even if Piccolo wasn't exhausted, island destroyer > mouth beam, unless you can show me that the mouth beam was more powerful.

The principle is, you lowered your guard, you can get killed from something fairly weak. As Whis puts it, the body is quite fragile when emptied of Ki. In Goku's case, he thought Frieza was defeated, he was on his knees and his power drained. There's nothing to worry about, and he got himself shoot because he wasn't paying attention.

But we are going in circles.

You can criticize all you want and you have the right to your opinion. However, to say that Goku never acted this way before or that Sorbet's being able to hurt Goku came out of nowhere and was only made up by the movies is simply isn't true. You can disagree that Goku wasn't a Smug Super during the Ginyu fight, while other fans think Goku was a cocky SOB and deserved to get his body stolen. You can also disagree about whether Piccolo is an example of what happens when you dropped your guard, but the fact remains that Piccolo pierce Goku with an attack after he easily tanked a blast that leveled an island. And it happened specifically when Goku turned around to give the victory sign.

You know, I read a lot of fanfics where people try to 'fix' Dragon Ball and fans proclaiming that they can write a better movie than Toriyama and I read some fans attempt to make a better Resurrection 'F'. In my opinion, all of them sucked and I have ready precious few fanfics that did it better than the author. Sure, they start out with some good ideas than it goes completely off the rails for one reason or another (mostly Character Defilement). I take almost anything written by Toriyama over most suppose 'do it better' fics.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:19:50 PM by Ramona122003

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35657: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:14:04 PM

you just criticized reality tv tho

[up] No, you totally did. You ignored everything I just said.

And I'm totally going to dismiss those fans. They have no authority on the subject. The fact that some fans saw that as cocky doesn't mean there was basis for him actually being cocky, because I completely disagree with that interpretation.

If someone read the same scene and interpreted as Goku being cruel to them for their appearance, that wouldn't be enough basis for a new product to show him having a prejudice against weird-looking aliens.

But even if Piccolo wasn't exhausted, island destroyer > mouth beam, unless you can show me that the mouth beam was more powerful.

Burden of proof is on you for making that claim. I merely pointed out that Piccolo is capable of moon busting attacks, which means island-busting is not the limit of his abilities and not a good way to measure him.

You can criticize all you want and you have the right to your opinion. However, to say that Goku never acted this way before or that Sorbet's being able to hurt Goku came out of nowhere and was only made up by the movies is simply isn't true

Actually no, because the bolded is nothing more than your opinion which you are trying to push on me.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:18:46 PM by Saiga

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35658: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:14:55 PM

Like, what was the fucking point of that reality tv comment?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35659: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:17:28 PM

Yeah, have a point there; edited.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35660: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:18:19 PM

I agree with everyone.

Well, okay maybe not everyone. Tao didn't want to pay. Goku's sudden weakness (and trying to spare Frieza again for any reason) is dumb, the laser is questionable even if it's some kinda super space laser, etc etc.

I will say that it seems people have no problem agreeing with Toriyama when he does something they like, but only go Death of the Author when he pulls out said random Super Saiyan Slayin' laser.

And now for the most important question in all of Dragonball:

Is Bulma hotter with purple hair or blue hair?

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35661: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:20:00 PM

I will say that it seems people have no problem agreeing with Toriyama when he does something they like, but only go Death of the Author when he pulls out said random Super Saiyan Slayin' laser.

I know you're trying to point out a double standard but how often are you going to disagree with something you like? The two are pretty closely related.

You don't just like/dislike something without reason, so the fact that people agree or disagree in Toriyama would be part of the reasoning that leads someone to like or dislike something.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:20:45 PM by Saiga

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35662: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:21:18 PM

I have no idea what's going on.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35663: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:23:08 PM

It's not that uncommon for me to think a moment in a manga or something is cool by itself but bad in the context of things going on around it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35664: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:24:25 PM

I know you're trying to point out a double standard but how often are you going to disagree with something you like? The two are pretty closely related.

Touché good sir. I suppose you'd have to be pretty spiteful to disagree with something even when you like it. I mean, even I'll acknowledge certain good things about Naruto, for instance, and we all know my feelings about series.

Edit: [up] This too.

Anyway, Purple or blue folks? Which Bulma hair colour reigns supreme?

edited 11th Mar '16 8:25:27 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35665: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:27:26 PM

And I don't know why I responded to that.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:32:21 PM by VeryMelon

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35666: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:28:26 PM

Actually, about Naruto, apparently someone in the Death Battle said that in an interview with Kishimoto, he said the high-tiers of his series were Nappa level. Take that as you will.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35667: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:29:39 PM

[up] Even the Otsutsukis and Ten-Tails hosts? If so, Naruto is a LOT weaker than I thought it was.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35668: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:29:46 PM

I hear Naruto tanked a moon shot or something along those lines.

I can buy it.

Was Nappa powerful enough to destroy a planet?

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35669: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:30:06 PM

[up][up][up] That sounds exactly like the kind of false rumour fans make up to support their own agenda. It's not the sort of comparison you see manga authors make.

Remember: always look for a source!

edited 11th Mar '16 8:30:27 PM by Saiga

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35670: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:30:42 PM

Purple makes Bulma look Old.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:31:10 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35671: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:32:38 PM

To be fair, that means Naruto, at his absolute strongest during the Boruto movie, is anywhere between Nappa and Saiyan Saga Goku without the Kaio-ken in terms of power. Meaning, that a Saibaman could still probably kill like 80% of the entire cast.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35672: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:34:04 PM

I would've thought that Ten-Tails Obito and Madara could've thrown down with Piccolo post-Nail fusion at least, with the Otsutsukis themselves maybe even giving Frieza a good fight.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35673: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:35:01 PM

I am not pushing my opinion on anyone, I only stated my opinion. You're the one trying to push Goku wasn't cocky and I pointed out that I can name people who disagree and thought that he was. And how is the burden of proof is on me to prove that an island destroyer is stronger than a mouth blast? One blast destroyed an island, the other was a sucker punch. Also, Piccolo didn't destroy the moon until Z, so why are you bringing that up when we're talking about the 23rd tournament? And when he did destroy the moon, it wasn't a mouth blast.

I only said I have no problem with Resurrection 'F' portrayal of Goku because I can name points where Goku acted cocky and where Goku lowered his guard and got hurt. You're the one who who's pushing an opinion and dismissing other fans' opinion because you don't agree with them because they have 'no authority on the subject'. What does that even mean anyway? If we're talking about seniority or something, the people who did that podcast, save for the newbie, have been fans of Dragon Ball since 96 and one of them read the original Japanese manga. I don't agree with them about a lot of stuff, but I don't dismiss their opinion as 'having no authority'.

No offense, but your opinion isn't better than someone's else's even if you've been a fan for years.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35674: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:35:25 PM

[up][up] Whoa whoa whoa, talk about underestimating Dragon Ball escalation!

I am not pushing my opinion on anyone, I only stated my opinion.

You repeatedly said I was wrong on that point, which is not the same thing at all.

And how is the burden of proof is on me to prove that an island destroyer is stronger than a mouth blast?

Uh, because you made that claim. Duh.

Also, Piccolo didn't destroy the moon until Z, so why are you bringing that up when we're talking about the 23rd tournament?

Because Z Piccolo is not on a completely different level from his 23rd Budokai self. Goku didn't even do much training between the tournaments and their relative position stayed the same. Piccolo did train and learn the Makankosappo, but he didn't need that to blow up the moon.

And when he did destroy the moon, it wasn't a mouth blast.

Irrelevant. He just shot a basic ki blast, the location someone shoots from has never been shown to change things. Goku can Kamehameha from his feet, for instance.

You're the one who who's pushing an opinion and dismissing other fans' opinion because you don't agree with them because they have 'no authority on the subject'. What does that even mean anyway?

It takes two to argue. I'm not being any pushier than you, and I didn't say any of your opinions were wrong.

The reason I say they have no authority is because they don't. They're just another person's opinions. They don't work with the series in any official capacity, so I see no reason to even drag their opinion into the discussion. It's not belittling them, it's just that it isn't relevant.

No offense, but your opinion isn't better than someone's else's even if you've been a fan for years.

Not what I was saying at all. You've just completely misunderstood me.

edited 11th Mar '16 8:42:16 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#35675: Mar 11th 2016 at 8:35:55 PM

Eh, Naruto is apparently scaled to Small Planet level because of this, along with Madara and Hagoromo.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

Total posts: 130,800
Top