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Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35201: Mar 6th 2016 at 8:59:59 AM

Goku ditch his family at the end of Z with some random kid, so how was him leaving to train with Whis OOC? Gohan is also in character since he lost power in the movie Toriyama wrote.

This what I mean when I say fans tend to blame Toei for stuff Toriyama does himself.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35202: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:00:07 AM

Oh, and there was also this gem: Goku almost loses his chance to train under Whis because he can't quit pestering him while he's having a delicious meal at one of the many restaurants Bulma's been showing him. For the most part, it works; Goku's belligerently impatient, Whis loves delicious food. But where it falls apart for me is that Goku doesn't join the meal. He sits in a chair off to the side and just keeps popping in to interrupt and ask if Whis is done.

Goku passes up a perfectly good opportunity to eat delicious food on Bulma's tab because the scene demands he be an annoying nuisance instead. Granted, nobody invited him, but when has that ever stopped Goku?

edited 6th Mar '16 9:00:37 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35203: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:03:31 AM

[up]

Man's got a point.

I mean, unless it's saying that Goku is so desperate to train that he couldn't even focus on food, but Goku's only ever skipped out on food once and that was when shit got real and Krillin died.

Very strange indeed.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35204: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:04:20 AM

Or Goku is being overly excited since he hadn't trained in several months on top of finding out that he will be getting God training. Yeah, seems like like normal Goku to me. He's going through training withdraws.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#35205: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:05:24 AM

Maybe he thought eating his food and pestering at the same time would be seen as rude?

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35206: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:09:56 AM

Goku tends not to eat food from other people's plates. He isn't Luffy. He most likely didn't eat because he's fully aware that this is Whis' food.

Also Goku's being a big eater is played down in the series and even the movies, where he expressed annoyance at Beerus' interrupting his training to talk about food.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35207: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:10:11 AM

He rarely cares about being rude. Sure he might feel bad about it, but if given the chance, he will try to punch someone in the face (or blast them in the face) just to see how powerful they are.

Just ask Monaka and Old Kai.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35208: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:16:03 AM

But he's never shown eating other people's food and those incidents you named was him trying to test someone's strength.

On the subject of Toriyama throwing away plot for the sake of trolling, it's hard to say at this point since we don't have the entire story and are only commenting on play by play. Until we know everything we can only guess how the story would have unfolded if Frost was really good.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#35209: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:21:13 AM

I have no problem with the twist, to be honest. Heck, I kinda find it interesting.

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#35210: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:35:17 AM

Goku ditch his family at the end of Z with some random kid, so how was him leaving to train with Whis OOC?

Goku leaving on his own is something that dates back to the original Dragon Ball. When he wasn't participating in World Tournaments, he was out adventuring by himself with little contact with everyone else unless he just happened to run into them or needed something.

On this latest episode's twist: I don't think it's trolling the fans as much as it is giving Vegeta a consolation prize for not having a "real" fight with Freeza last arc.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35211: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:48:20 AM

I don't care what it ls, I'm just enjoying the salt from Piccolo fans.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35212: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:51:38 AM

Apparently, a lot of people thought Goku through the fight because of Frost's sob story. Hilarious.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35213: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:55:41 AM

I know that. I was countering a poster who said Toei made Goku a bad father for ditch his family, even as his was wife was begging him to stay, to train with Whis, when Goku always acted that way. When it comes to training he's completely hopeless. Even more amusingly, I remember fans saying that Toei made Goku look like a better father in the anime compared to the manga since we actually see Goku hanging out with his family.

The only person who came out really bad in that episode was Chi-Chi and that can easily be explained as her being hung strung from being a first time grandmother. She also chills out after that and accepts how Goku is.

Personally, I wanted Piccolo to take down Frost since Frieza actually killed Piccolo in this show. He deserves revenge far more than Vegeta.

edited 6th Mar '16 9:56:19 AM by Ramona122003

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#35214: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:55:54 AM

Because he winced at a moment.Hehe.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#35215: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:58:16 AM

Goku leaving to train isn't OOC. Goku callously disregarding his family to the point of using Goten as a shield, lying to Chi-Chi about a party for Pan that he has no intention of ever throwing, and then finally getting his way by ignoring his family's opinions entirely and just doing what he wants because they can't stop him, are far more spiteful than anything he does in the manga.

Goku goes off to train all the time, but it's never been in such a rude and self-centered fashion as his final "You can't stop me, I'm already teleporting with Whis, you'll get over it in time!" departure here.

There's no problem with what he did - going to train with Whis - but how Toei had him do it is exactly why fans tend to consider Goku to be the worst non-villainous father in anime.

edited 6th Mar '16 10:00:35 AM by TobiasDrake

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35216: Mar 6th 2016 at 9:58:24 AM

[up][up][up]If that's you're justification it's pretty flimsy. Frieza killed Vegeta, and his father and entire race, and blew up their planet, and the basically treat him as a slave his entire life. Piccolo dying more recently doesn't mean he has a bigger grievance against Frieza.

I don't see why "But it happened to Piccolo in this show" should mean anything.

edited 6th Mar '16 9:59:29 AM by LSBK

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35217: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:01:19 AM

Piccolo's race was genocided by Freeza as well, out of greed. It's just that Piccolo doesn't have a stronger history with Freeza than Vegeta does.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#35218: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:02:14 AM

Piccolo's race was genocided by Vegeta and Freeza.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35219: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:02:40 AM

Piccolo's race also came back. And he didn't really have that strong a connection to them.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#35220: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:04:26 AM

Also correct, which is another reason it doesn't make sense to say Piccolo should beat Frost.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35221: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:04:36 AM

Saiga: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Sure is 'clever' to make a twist by repeating something you've done over and over and making the story more boring as a result when you actually had an interesting situation you could have explored.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#35222: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:07:18 AM

Don't care, still like what's going on.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#35223: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:08:15 AM

And Vegeta was a mass-murderer who didn't particularly care about his race given he didn't care to wish Raditz back and personally killed Nappa. Vegeta dying at Frieza's hand, while tragic, was still karma catching up with him since really wasn't that different than Frieza. Just a murderer killing another murderer.

Piccolo died saving Gohan's life and in my opinion more worthy to beat Frost. Also, Frieza nearly wiped out his race too and was only spared because of the Dragon Balls. He also knows Frieza's full horrors to the Namekian race sine he had Nail's memories of the genocide.

Also, Vegeta was given the chance to beat the crap out of Golden Frieza, while Piccolo couldn't even touch him and got a hole blown through his chest. Him putting down Frost would be something.

As for Goku leaving being mean-spirited, he was desperate because he hadn't train in months and he was hiding and lying since Chi-Chi was in one of moods. The stunt he pulled at the end of the manga is worse since it had no warning and Goku didn't even apologize for leaving. He barely said goodbye before leaving with some kid.

edited 6th Mar '16 10:16:52 AM by Ramona122003

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#35224: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:13:11 AM

Of course Vegeta deserves to fight Frieza more. Haven't you ever had an annoying boss? Vegeta was sent for months or years traveling to random locations just to blow them up and then sent on to the next mission with hardly a break, leaving him rather uprooted and unable to settle down. The pay was hardly great: Vegeta seems to have no personal possessions and no home. On top of that, he's always stuck working with an annoying bald jackass that he doesn't like simply because Frieza keeps making them work together. Finally, Vegeta, actual legit royalty, is always sent on petty missions like bug extermination.

No wonder he's fed up working for Frieza. One star out of five, Frieza, one star. You only get that because you seem to provide good dental.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#35225: Mar 6th 2016 at 10:14:02 AM

[up][up]Yeah, we already covered the stuff with Piccolo. If you're going by pure connection and what it would mean Vegeta blows Piccolo out of the water in that department.

But really, what it gets down to is none of them are "more worthy" to beat Frost because Frost is not actually Frieza. I don't see why you're bringing righteousness or whatever into it.

edited 6th Mar '16 10:16:07 AM by LSBK


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