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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34951: Mar 3rd 2016 at 5:50:53 PM

I am so so so sorry I brought up Naruto.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#34952: Mar 3rd 2016 at 5:55:25 PM

Don't be.

Really, people getting pissy about a different series being brought up is kinda stupid. The thread isn't an isolated bubble world where every other manga doesn't exist.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34953: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:00:40 PM

... you were the one who got mad first. I never even read the other comment because it was thumped before I got to it.

Personally, I like Kaguya and despite the plot twist regarding her being sudden, I don't think it was too asspull-y. Naruto is still shit, but there were definitely good parts.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#34954: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:04:32 PM

Bringing up other things for comparison's sake isn't bad in-and-of itself but it often spirals into places we shouldn't be going.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#34955: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:04:39 PM

Do you honestly think that's anger? 'cause watching the AVGN would probably make your head explode if that's the case.

Also, just for the record, I was not the one who called the mod who thumped that post.

[up]Like Dragon Ball/Naruto crossover fanfic.

Holy hell, those crossovers.

edited 3rd Mar '16 6:05:36 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#34956: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:11:50 PM

I remember one that made Goku and Naruto equals, with SS = Sage Mode, SS2 = Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, SS3 = Kurama Mode, and SSG = Kurama Sage Mode. Considering the fact that Goku has Saiyan beyond God and Super Saiyan Blue now, and Naruto got Six Paths Sage Mode, his new version of Kurama Sage Mode from The Last, what can only be described as a Six Paths Sage Kurama Mode, and even his Version 1 Cloak back, I really have no idea how a comparison like that would even work anymore, since Naruto has way more forms than Goku does now; not even gonna try to make Tailed Beast Mode in all its forms fit in this either.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#34957: Mar 3rd 2016 at 6:40:56 PM

So... Demigra. Demiglace.

How did I not realize that sooner?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#34958: Mar 3rd 2016 at 7:13:34 PM

I have to thank everyone for introducing me to the term "manpain". I think I'm going to use that to refer to that scene from now on.

edited 3rd Mar '16 11:38:07 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#34959: Mar 3rd 2016 at 7:19:51 PM

It's not manpain.

It's MAYNpain

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#34960: Mar 3rd 2016 at 8:11:06 PM

[up][up]But for what it's worth, going back to actual initial point, I didn't mind the whole "Vegeta surpassed Goku" stuff considering how differently Goku and Vegeta treated the fight. Goku treated his initial fight with Beerus as a spar while with Vegeta it was suddenly a life or death fight.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34961: Mar 3rd 2016 at 8:53:21 PM

I thought I was the one who did that?tongue

Anyway... um...well...

How 'bout that Frost hey? He sure isn't Frieza.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#34962: Mar 3rd 2016 at 8:56:02 PM

Frost is great.

I really hope he's part of a Justice League or something like that in his universe.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#34963: Mar 3rd 2016 at 10:50:19 PM

I just learned that the guy who voices Beat in DBH is Ankh from OOO and Sora from Kingdom Hearts (JP).

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#34964: Mar 4th 2016 at 5:34:15 AM

I cant wait to play as Frost in the next Dragon Ball vidya game.

edited 4th Mar '16 5:34:25 AM by Zeromaeus

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34965: Mar 4th 2016 at 7:45:24 AM

Shame Toriyama has no interest in doing much with his female characters.

Yes, Bulma is still relevant, but Chi-chi was just him punishing himself for some strange reason (since he disliked drawing her), 18 was just a reward for Krillin, and Videl... Videl got hitched to a wagon that he pushed right off a cliff and then decided lol now you're a housewife. And she was a normal human anyway, so how far she could have gone was always limited.

I admit, I'd love Super Saiyan Bulma... I wonder if they can wish themselves into Saiyans?

In Toriyama's defense, he's a product of his culture. This is something that comes up a lot in anime: Japan believes heavily in the notion that Female Success Is Family. We used to have a trope for that, but it got split up into components.

The basic idea is that Japan expects women to have careers only until they marry - which, itself, is expected to happen before the "unmarriable" age of 25; women who fail to do so become a Christmas Cake. Once wed, they're supposed to focus entirely on being a wife and mother, and this is considered their happy ending. Essentially, all interests, hobbies, and careers for female characters are expected to be temporary until they can start baby-making.

There's no apparent malice on Toriyama's part in what became of 18 and Videl; they both appear to have been written out with what would, in his culture, be considered a satisfactory and happy conclusion for their characters. He meant well enough.

It's still obnoxiously sexist, mind you. Just not spitefully so.

edited 4th Mar '16 7:47:14 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34966: Mar 4th 2016 at 7:46:54 AM

Also, Dragon Ball is a series from the 80s, from Japan. It's a product of its time. Nowadays, there's not much of an excuse, though.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34967: Mar 4th 2016 at 7:52:37 AM

This is true.

It's frustrating, but very true.

And Toriyama is from that time, so it's not a shock that he'd follow that example.

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#34968: Mar 4th 2016 at 8:00:39 AM

Dragon Ball is also a shonen series. It's like complaining that boys don't fight in a Magical Girl series.

There's more to writing process than checking off inclusiveness boxes.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34969: Mar 4th 2016 at 8:15:02 AM

Eh, I reject that one.

The exclusionism of "THESE shows are only for boys and THOSE shows are only for girls and NEVER shall the two enjoy the same media!" is part of Japan's obnoxious sexism.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#34970: Mar 4th 2016 at 8:18:22 AM

I've heard that actual modern Japanese people below, let's say, thirty or so don't actually buy into the Christmas Cake thing too much or that women have to retire when they get married. I think the issue is just that a lot of mangaka are from the older generation and art tends to be lag behind new innovations and cultural ideas.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34971: Mar 4th 2016 at 8:20:38 AM

That Christmas Cake thing especially. It's one of those low brow jokes still being used in modern anime and manga.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34972: Mar 4th 2016 at 8:23:21 AM

Yeah. I admit I haven't watched a lot of Magical Girl stuff, but the two I have seen - Sailor Moon and Puella Magi Madoka Magica - both featured a Christmas Cake teacher whose bitterness and/or desperation over the inability to find love was her defining character trait.

It's presence in shoujo unsettles me, because it feels like it's meant as a warning. "Remember, girls, you MUST wed as soon as you can. Don't become these deranged, unmarryable women!"

Christmas Cakes don't appear as much in shonen, I think, because they don't have an "educational" value in boy-oriented media. The purpose of the division of shonen and shoujo is to teach boys and girls intrinsically different values.

edited 4th Mar '16 8:27:33 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#34973: Mar 4th 2016 at 8:28:24 AM

Is that still a common thing or is it just a stereotype now?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#34974: Mar 4th 2016 at 1:06:15 PM

It actually still kinda is.

Not to fan the flames even more, but there's actually an example of this as recently as Naruto, where the Mizukage is treated as a Christmas Cake. And no, the concept isn't parodied. The Christmas Cake joke is pretty much all there is to her.

edited 4th Mar '16 1:06:59 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#34975: Mar 4th 2016 at 1:21:06 PM

A thing that has been contributing to Japanese plummeting birth rates is young women and men actively avoiding marriage and children because of the cultures suffocating social mores. Something like up to half of all young women and up to a quarter of all young men are uninterested in even having purely sexual relationships.

The women know that if they get into a relationship there will be a lot of pressure to get married and have kids and abandon any career ambitions they have and the men know there will be an implicit assumption they'll have to work themselves to death so their wife want have to work or something.

It's just not appealing all around. There was even a thread devoted entirely to it here and it's probably come up before in the Japanese Culture Thread.

edited 4th Mar '16 1:21:48 PM by LSBK


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