Whatever you're looking at is dead wrong. There is no recorded power level for Krillin after the beginning of the Freeza fight; he was 75,000 at the beginning. His power after is unknown.
Vegeta was, according to V-Jump, 250,000 before Krillin shot him. His power after is unknown, but he is for sure stronger than "over one million" second form Freeza and Nailccolo, since he could block attacks Piccolo couldn't even see.
Because Freeza transformed thrice. The healing boost made him stronger than Freeza's third form. Kind of a big deal.
The androids do not have infinite power. They have infinite STAMINA.
No, they're used to accurately measure how fighters stack up to each other so we can have some sense of scale other than "this guy is stronger than this guy". The primary purpose was to make Vegeta and Freeza look impressive by showing that they were x times stronger than the bad guy of the last arc.
Vegeta boasted he would wipe out Earth. He never actually did. For all we know he could've just been talking about killing all life rather than literally blowing apart the planet.
Cell and all forms of Buu can blow up stars, going by the guides, some anime only sequences, and Cell's claims. Anime Buuhan could tear down the universe. And yes, there is a huge difference, as characters who can roflstomp Cell would still get blinked away by Buu.
Vegeta was using the Garlic gun for the very purpose of blowing up the Earth. Whether or not he could've done it is questionable, but that was his reasons.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I really don't doubt Vegeta's capacity for destroying the earth even at 18000. Considering just how easy Frieza can blow up planets with just a fraction of his first form's max power level, Vegeta could probably blow up Earth with enough effort into his Garlic Gun. It would probably be a bit of a strain, though.
What's distressing is the fact that Krillin is now strong enough to blow up the Earth if he wanted to.
edited 8th Sep '13 12:33:17 AM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!As said, that is one of my problems with Dragon Ball, the characters have effectively outclassed the setting. Earth really is too fragile for them, but they can't leave without an even more fragile spaceship because they need air (supposedly).
Martial arts is all about self control and the series has a decidedly Buddhist bent philosophies (thanks to its inspiration) which teaches moderation but it still kind of stretches the willing suspension of disbelief to think Kid Trunks or Pan haven't broke the planet many times over. (Then again, maybe they have. Arale did crack the Earth in half in Dr. Slump, presumably the time travel thing undid that)
Modified Ura-nage, Torture RackI'm really surprised that Earth survived about 5 Saiyan hybrids running around on it without any direct negative consequences.
Anyway...I'll confess something here. I know the internet as a collective whole generally dislikes GT, but I kinda liked the premise and the basic plots it had... and Pan.
What improvements and changes do you guys think would have made Dragonball GT a salvagable and more well recieved series?
edited 10th Sep '13 3:32:44 PM by ScorpioRat
I actually didn't mind GT too much. It had some interesting points and is rife with They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot that could be expanded into something good.
- Part of the issue is simply a lack of thought put into parts of it. It's like some guys had some good ideas they wanted to incorporate and others just phoned it in, creating a weird mix.
- The initial pitch of making it more comedic and less serious sorta blew up in their faces, but we already know that. I'd trim the Black Star Dragon Ball saga down and make Baby come a bit sooner.
- The whole "Goku is a kid again" point should be dropped entirely. It ceases to become plot-relevant once he gains Super Saiyan 4, and its main purpose before that was a failed attempt to make him more like his original Dragon Ball counterpart. Plus it's kinda creepy, in a way.
- Pan could stand to be a little less annoying and a little more useful.
- Speaking of which, GT should stand for something other than "Goku Time". I mean, Uub gets a huge powerup and promptly proceeds to follow Gohan's footsteps as accomplishing nothing. Gohan himself, too. And everybody else. Goku is literally the only person who accomplishes anything. Couldn't some of them at least have taken on the lesser Shadow Dragons?
- Oh, and Gohan should have his mystic form back instead of randomly going Super Saiyan again. That's probably more a mistake or inconsistency than a deliberate choice, but I'll address it regardless.
- Was there any point to having Piccolo sacrifice himself? Especially when he didn't even appear until then in the show?
- Super 17 "saga" could stand to be cleaned up a bit. It recycles the plot from Fusion Reborn, there's a lot of illogic in the eponymous villain, Gero is even more of a nincompoop than before, Goku is a dunce feeding 17's energy absorption, Cell and Frieza being complete tools in Hell, ect.
- The defeat of Omega Shenron is a bit silly. Why is Goku immune to his attacks, suddenly, even though being vulnerable while charging is the Spirit Bomb's greatest weakness? Why is Goku the only one who does anything useful again?
- And of course, Goku randomly having to go away in the end. I generally don't care about whether an ending is happy, sad, or bittersweet, but it seemed like a needless, unforeshadowed attempt at drama for no real purpose but further glorification.
edited 10th Sep '13 3:51:25 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I pretty much agree with all of those statements. I liked the idea of doing a Dragonball-esque quest through the galaxy, but then OP Goku kinda sucked the suspense right out of it. They should have left him on Earth to protect it, and sent off Uub, Trunks, and Goten instead, and then have Pan added on accidentally (either replacing Goten or keeping him). Not having Goku around to clean up the problem with force should mature Pan a bit by getting her to fight more instead.
There could even be a seperate B-plot on Earth to occupy everyone else left behind.
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I think the wiki said the reason for your second to last point was because the Spirit Bomb was so powerful it created a barrier with its sheer energy for Goku that protected him from everything Omega did.
edited 10th Sep '13 4:14:09 PM by Ssj3Gojira
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!![]()
I'm not saying Goku should do nothing, yeah. A B-plot on earth with Goku, Vegeta, and the rest of the "old generation" while the "new generation" go to space (and eventually "awaken" Baby) would work.
So who would fight General "Stronger than Majin Buu" Rilldo? Would Uub go with them? That would be a good fight for him (And then he gets to one-shot the revived Rilldo later just like in the real GT, to show how far he's come).
That's my best justification, too. I would have showed, it, though, like with flaring energy from the Spirit Bomb deflecting away his attacks, rather than them just exploding on Goku himself.
edited 10th Sep '13 4:20:24 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Yeah, I'd have Uub handle him, since he's reincarnated Buu and all. It's only fitting.
And then before that, I'd have Pan fight Ledgic (and actually have him return for a rematch as promised).
And now I'm imagining adult Gotenks trolling the crap out of the Parapara brothers and Master Daltalki before wrecking them. If being turned into candy can't stop Vegito, then being forced to dance or being turned into a doll would be a cakewalk.
I did enjoy them while they lasted, but that was because of the sheer WTF value of their stupid dancing. Watching that backfire on them by someone just not giving a crap would be hilarious. If the outer space part of GT was kept lighthearted, then it wouldn't have stood out as much. And the redesigns were...yeah. I miss Gohan's first haircut from early Dragon Ball Z, actually.
Oh yeah, and the lack of Super Saiyan Pan was annoying to me. She had a moment on Giru's planet that would have been perfect, and a couple more after that, but nothing happened. That needs to be fixed, especially after seeing Goku Jr do it so fast. That's just silly.
Uub fighting Rilldo would be cool.
Personally, I would leave out the superfluous, "He's MORE POWERFUL THAN MAJIN BUU!!!" line. It's completely unnecessary. Also, ridiculous. He doesn't have to be stronger than Buu to be a threat. He just has to be stronger than whoever he's fighting, and nobody in the main cast was stronger than Majin Buu. That's why they needed the Spirit Bomb in the first place.
edited 10th Sep '13 9:40:12 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Yeah, I know it's superfluous, it's just kinda funny that some random schmoe from some random planet is arbitrarily stronger than a universal cosmic destroyer who itself was stronger than the ultimate bio-engineered warrior who was stronger than a galactic tyrant who was stronger than everyone in the known universe at the time while in his weakest form not even at full power.
The other GT villains at least make some sense for their stronger-than-Buu strength; Baby was basically a supercharged Vegeta who was probably stronger than Buu at that point by himself, Super 17 is improbable but weakly justified and he gets most of his strength from absorptions anyway, and the Shadow Dragons are reasonable enough to see being more powerful given their origins.
edited 10th Sep '13 9:53:03 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I'd like to see the Shadow Dragons be given a more personal motivation. Instead of just rampaging around the world trying to Kill All Humans, I'd have them targeting our protagonists directly, based on the wish that brought them into being. Effectively, they would be the vengeance of the abused Dragon Balls, unmaking the abuse by reclaiming the wishes. Unfortunately for our heroes, most of those wishes were to bring them back to life.
The dragon born of the one wish to recreate the planet Earth and everyone on it after Majin Buu blew it up should be the only one trying to kill all humans. I think they'd make more sense that way. Instead of, "You've made too many wishes, now we're going to destroy the Earth," it would be, "You've made too many wishes, now I'm going to take them back."
Especially since destroying the Earth just does not work as a motivation in Dragon Ball. Vegeta could do it from the time he first set foot in the series. If your villain's motivation is to kill everyone on the Earth, there's not really any reason to not just pull a Majin Buu and destroy the Earth. Frieza realized this. Cell realized this. Majin Buu DID it. Omega Shenron never quite stumbled on it.
edited 10th Sep '13 10:02:14 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I kinda like that they're motivationless, they're just born to destroy and that's what they do. In a way, that shallowness actually worked, and made Nuova seem like the only one to actually stop and think "Wait, what are we doing?"
I wouldn't mind if their personalities were more in line with the wish that spawned them, though. Though I'd wonder what that would mean for Oceanus... Would she hatch a sinister plot to steal back a pair of panties from Oolong?
I think Omega is the only one who wanted to explicitly destroy the earth, and even then he wanted to kill Goku first, as a sort of "Thanks for making me, here's your reward".
edited 10th Sep '13 10:04:27 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I would have her take the role Nuova filled. The wish that spawned her is so small and petty compared to the other ones. She destroys the panties!
...and then what? That's kind of the full extent of her vengeance. Trying to convince the protagonists that THEY ARE TOTALLY SUFFERING FOR THE LOSS OF THIS RANDOM PAIR OF PANTIES IN OOLONG'S DRAWER would bring some comic relief, and put her in a position to witness what the other dragons are doing and maybe come to a realization that this isn't what the Dragon Balls were made for.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.And then Nuova Shenron would seek out King Piccolo to try and make him an old geezer again?
"WHERE is King Piccolo?!"
"He dead, man."
"...Damnit! NOW what am I supposed to do with my life?!"
edited 10th Sep '13 10:07:17 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I can't remember the exact wish correlations. It feels like there were more wishes than Dragons, just from resurrections alone.
Given the whole, "I am the Dragon born of X wish" thing they were going for, there should be a Dragon for every wish, not just one per Ball.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I've been wondering, does a fusion from the potara earrings result in a stronger being than from the dance? Elder Kai's says it's better, but I don't think it's specified if that is due to the lack of a time limit or also due to a bigger power increase.
edited 10th Sep '13 10:41:52 PM by Spirit
#IceBearForPresident![]()
There were more wishes, yeah. The ones they coorelate to are:
- Haze: Goku's wish to bring Upa back to life.
- Rage: The wish to bring Goku back to fight Nappa and Vegeta
- Oceanus: Panties.
- Naturon: Bulma's wish to revive those killed by Majin Vegeta.
- Nuova: King Piccolo's wish for youth.
- Eis: The wish to erase humanity's memory of Majin Buu.
- Syn: Wish to bring back all of Frieza's victims.
That leaves out a few, though I forget which.
There's never been a solid answer to that. I personally assume they're of equal strength, it's just that Potara is faster and permanent, while the dance is difficult to pull off and temporary. It's the method, not the result, that's more powerful.
edited 10th Sep '13 10:44:43 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

Indeed. He lowered his power to the point where Krillin could injure him (because the latter flat out pointed out that he'd never be able to hurt Vegeta).
As for the Androids, there main strength is that they don't grow tired. As long as the enemy isn't ridiculous more powerful than them (which naturally, all succeeding opponents end up doing), they can just stall out until their opponent gets weak using too much power.
Of course, as Piccolo showed, even this has it's flaw if the opponent is about equal, and can take what you dish out.
edited 7th Sep '13 7:47:32 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!