TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3301: Sep 4th 2013 at 9:47:11 AM

Ah, I forgot that Bulma made Baby even stronger after their mutual KO.

How does that work? Isn't he already at peak power as a gold Oozaru? What did she use on him, exactly?

edited 4th Sep '13 9:47:30 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3302: Sep 4th 2013 at 9:49:05 AM

Dragon Ball might not have a canon, as is, but it does have continuity, of which GT is not a part of if you are a "manga purist" or choose to ignore it for whatever other reason like say, dragon ball online.

What else is not in continuity? Power levels beyond Freeza's final 1 million reading and Yakon's 3 thousand on an entirely different scale Multipliers of all kinds beyond the Kaio-ken.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3303: Sep 4th 2013 at 6:43:43 PM

There are only 3 power levels in Dragon Ball Z.

  • Unable to keep up with the villain.
  • Strong enough to hold your own in a fight with the villain.
  • Overwhelming the villain.

All numbers are moot. These are the three power levels in Dragon Ball Z. In Power Level 1, it doesn't matter if you are Krillin or Vegeta, you are equal.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3304: Sep 4th 2013 at 6:56:11 PM

That middle one is pretty rare. The only real "even" fights I can think of off the top of my head are Piccolo vs. 2nd form Frieza, 16 vs. Imperfect Cell, SSJ 2 Gohan vs. Super Perfect Cell (Approximately), Goku vs. Majin Vegeta, and if you're feeling generous Gohan vs. Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed).

Oh, and the aforementioned Goku vs. Baby, but that's GT.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3305: Sep 4th 2013 at 7:11:56 PM

Goku vs Krillen, Tien and Piccolo before they could no longer catch up. Goku vs Devilman and Gohan. Humans vs Saibamen. Goku vs Nappa pre-kaioken, Gohan vs (injured)Vegeta Goku vs Ginyu (at first), SS Goku vs 100% Freeza (for a little while), Vegeta vs 18 (for a little while), Piccolo vs 17, Goku vs Cell, Goku vs Fat and Kid Buu, SS 3 Gotenks vs Super Buu, Gohan vs Dabura...

They all count for power level 2 I think. Then you have friendly fights like Goku vs Krillen, Roshi, Korin, Yajirobe. Goten vs Trunks. Goten&Trunks vs 18. Goku vs Uub.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3306: Sep 4th 2013 at 7:14:28 PM

I was only thinking of Z, though I would assume the original DB had a lot more.

Yeah, I forgot about a few of those like 17 vs. Piccolo and Gotenks vs. Super Buu. Not sure about SSJ 3 Goku vs. Fat/Kid Buu, though. I've heard conflicting assessments.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3307: Sep 4th 2013 at 7:51:05 PM

Bah, Z is just a creation of TOEI to try and divert distract us from how drawn out their cartoon had become. Speaking of which, Fusion Reborn Spoilers!

Power level 3 at its peak.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3308: Sep 4th 2013 at 8:09:12 PM

No, this is:

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3309: Sep 4th 2013 at 11:26:57 PM

So is Super Saiyan 4 suppose to be stronger than Super Saiyan God, or is the latter at the same level as the former?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3310: Sep 5th 2013 at 11:25:46 PM

Super Saiyan 4 is more powerful than any other form Goku has ever or will ever take, through virtue of being non-canon and thus not actually having to compare properly.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3311: Sep 6th 2013 at 7:58:13 AM

Or rather, it is not in continuity to those who take Dragon Ball online as the true sequel series, or at least do not count anything Akira Toriyama did not plot himself.

Seriously though, as I hate GT, I would say SS 4 is equal to SS 2 at best, thus weaker than SSG.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3312: Sep 6th 2013 at 11:34:45 AM

Going by what the guides have given us, SSG is quite a bit stronger than SS 4. GT Goku is much, much stronger than BOG Goku in base. When he gets SS 4, it makes him "perhaps as strong as Super Vegetto". When BOG Goku gets SSG, it makes him stronger enough to put up a fight against someone who was stated to be much, much stronger than anyone in Z... which would include Super Vegetto. As if that's not enough, after gaining SSG, Goku says that he "never imagined power like this could exist". He WAS Super Vegetto, knows how much of a boost the next two transformations are, and so could predict SS 3 Vegetto's strength... yet still considered SSG in another league.

SSG >>>>>>>>>> SS 4

SSG Goku (BOG) >> SS 3 Vegetto (Z) >>>> SS 2 Vegetto (Z) >> SS Vegetto (Z) >= SS 4 Goku

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3313: Sep 6th 2013 at 12:03:04 PM

Super Saiyan 4 Goku is probably stronger than Super Saiyan Vegito. GT Goku in base form is practically as strong as Buu Saga SSJ 3 Goku, apparently, so multiplying that by all the Super Saiyan multipliers and then adding 4 on top of it probably puts him pretty far past Vegito.

Now here's the real question; is SSJ 4 Gogeta still stronger than anything else in the franchise, even SSG, Beers, or Whis?

edited 6th Sep '13 12:04:28 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3314: Sep 6th 2013 at 2:34:47 PM

Vegeta as a role model? Eh, I guess I could see it. He's got those scenes... like these.

These two scenes were always my favorites, along with Vegeta scaring Kid Buu of all people after he got blasted in the face and still got back up. But these were some of Vegeta's most epic moments. I can't find the Ocean version of it, so here's the Japanese and Kai versions since there are those that prefer them.

Vegeta in the Rain - Funimation.

Vegeta in the Rain - Kai.

Vegeta in the Rain - Japanese Audio.

There's also the scene that takes place after Vegeta's defeat to Android 18 that I really like. I really like this scene in both Funimation and Ocean versions; for added effect, I would try to play both at the same time. It's tricky, but worth it.

Vegeta Gets Angry - Funimation.

Vegeta Gets Angry - Ocean.

Ah, found the Kai version. Vegeta Gets Angry - Kai.

EDIT:

Oh, I found the one where Vegeta scares Kid Buu. I'm sorry, but Kid Buu's face at 0:29 was priceless. He's like, "What the f-ck is this, I don't even-?"

edited 6th Sep '13 2:48:36 PM by FOFD

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3315: Sep 7th 2013 at 6:21:20 AM

Dunno exactly why, but this is hilarious to me.

The feats displayed by GT Goku far surpass anything SSG managed to do.

edited 7th Sep '13 6:26:01 AM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3316: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:49:38 AM

GT Goku has no feats, only statements. (Technically, those should be good enough, since if Dragon Ball characters ever cut loose to their fullest ability there wouldn't be any places left of the story to take place)

You know, that is a problem when your character technically becomes greater than the setting, contained to a fragile world by a technicality (Goku can't breathe in space, even though he can).

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3317: Sep 7th 2013 at 1:46:13 PM

Well if I remember correctly, Bills was able to cross the entire width of the galaxy in three hours, and there are only four galaxies, each one taking up a quarter of the universe, so he crossed a fourth of the universe in three hours; he'd have to be moving billions of times faster than light to do that.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3318: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:00:47 PM

I think Abridged Vegeta put this best.

*Frieza blows up the island they're standing on, intended to be a moment of awe for the audience at how great and powerful he is*

  • VEGETA: I'm not impressed! I can do that too!

Vegeta was able to blow up the entire planet Earth from the first arc of Z. Kid Buu blows up the entire planet Earth in the finale arc. This is the same goddamn accomplishment. Power levels mean nothing. There is absolutely no difference between Vegeta's immense power, Frieza's immense power, Cell's immense power, and Buu's immense power. There is no difference between the levels of Super Saiyan. Feats are meaningless.

The only difference is in whether or not Character Y feels it when Character X punches him, and that's more of a crapshoot than anything else, which Abridged actually also made a good point about.

  • VEGETA: Wait a minute, back on Earth the Namekian couldn't even handle Nappa. Now here he is taking on Frieza in his SECOND FORM. Power levels are BULLSHIT!

edited 7th Sep '13 7:04:37 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MikeBreezy92 Storm King Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Storm King
#3319: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:29:00 PM

[up]

Lol I think you're looking at it wrong. Power levels are only really relevant to the time frame. So Vegeta's immense power compared to previous foes is large. Same with the villains after that.

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3320: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:34:51 PM

They're still pretty random.

Piccolo gets completely trashed by Nappa. Nail can't even land a punch on First Form Frieza. With their power combined, they can give Second Form Frieza a run for his money, and it's only when Frieza transforms into his Third Form that he's able to overpower them.

Goku and Vegeta both profit ridiculously well from the "Saiyans get stronger from losing" thing, with Vegeta starting his trek through Namek being weaker than Zarbon, and ending it in a losing battle against Final Form Frieza in which he still managed to not die in two punches. Meanwhile, Gohan's "Hidden Power" equates to "Every now and then, Gohan's power level will randomly flare up to match whoever he's fighting for about five seconds and then reset to normal".

Then the androids make power levels irrelevant by having infinite power, and then Cell and Buu both manage to surpass the androids by being more powerful than infinite, with the Super Saiyans steadily following.

Power levels are completely random. They have about as much meaning as Xbox Achievement Points, and are just used for a meaningless pissing contest.

"I have a power level of seven hundred." "Yeah, well mine's three million." "Mine's FIVE BILLION, BITCH." "Yeah, well then mine is INFINITE." "Hah! I just powered up and transformed, and now my power level is THREE INFINITE!!!" Frankly, the events of the series are much easier to follow when you just stop listening to all the, "HE'S SO POWERFUL!!!" lines.

KRILLIN: *gasp* I can't follow Majin Buu's movements!

You can't follow Piccolo's movements. That doesn't mean anything. You say this about everyone.

edited 7th Sep '13 7:38:04 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#3321: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:37:27 PM

Wasn't it established that Vegeta was much weaker than even Second Form Frieza?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3322: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:38:41 PM

Yes, but then Krillin nearly killed him with a single blast to the chest, because Krillin is powerful enough to do that apparently, and then Vegeta was healed by Dende and came back STRONGER.

Vegeta spent most of Namek spamming that power-up to justify his ability to stay relevant against increasingly stronger foes in a short span of time. Goku also got to use it to go from "fights Ginyu and slowly overpowers him" to "holds his own against Final Form Frieza" in just a couple hours, the latter of whom could annihilate Ginyu by blinking at him if we are to take their numerical power levels seriously.

This plot point was then immediately dropped because future storyarcs actually gave them time to train their power levels the slow way, rather than abusing this INCREDIBLE shortcut cheat that can make gigantic jumps in record time.

edited 7th Sep '13 7:41:52 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3323: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:38:42 PM

For what it's worth, the androids aren't infinitely powerful, they're running on an infinite power source. They can still only output so much at a time.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#3324: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:41:13 PM

[up][up] But Vegeta let Krillin blast him, he even wanted him to.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3325: Sep 7th 2013 at 7:46:07 PM

If the numbers I'm reading are right, Krillin had a power level of 18,000 to Vegeta's 900,000 at the time. Kind of like Ginyu and Final Form Frieza, Vegeta could annihilate Krillin by blinking at him. But Vegeta letting down his guard apparently allows Krillin to cut through him like a knife through butter with a spontaneous ki blast generated in a moment of panic without even concentrating it first.

Krillin can oneshot Vegeta while panicking, and also cut through Frieza with his kienzan. Power levels are meaningless.

EDIT: No, wait, sorry. I was looking at the wrong number. 900,000 is after the healing; Vegeta was 200,000 before it. Which is still ridiculous and also calls attention to how broken that Saiyan healing thing is: Vegeta's power level increased 450% from getting oneshotted by Krillin, and it still didn't change anything. Vegeta was getting reamed before the powerup, Vegeta got reamed after it.

For as much as this Saiyan Healing thing affects their numerical power level value, the actual fights aren't influenced in any way.

edited 7th Sep '13 7:50:56 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 130,800
Top