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MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#3276: Sep 2nd 2013 at 7:49:50 AM

The only thing that bugs me about the whole "Goku is a bad role model" claims is when people try to make Vegeta look like a saint/holier than thou compared to him. Just my two cents. Someone even tried to compare Goku's parenting to Joe Jackson's.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
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#3277: Sep 2nd 2013 at 8:05:18 AM

"Getting angry is the only way to win a fight."

Tell that to Bruce Banner.

That's actually quite a heavily debated fight, actually (Goku vs. the Hulk, specifically classic Savage Hulk).

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IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#3278: Sep 2nd 2013 at 9:00:57 AM

Goku loves to fight and the Hulk just wants to be left alone.

Seriously though, Goku could beat Hulk for the same reasons Thor should beat Hulk. Teleport him into space or something. In that sense, I guess context is important. Does Goku see Hulk as a potentially fun opponent or a threat that must be disposed of right now? In the former case Hulk might stand a chance at winning, in the latter case, no.

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RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#3279: Sep 2nd 2013 at 7:13:03 PM

Yeah, if Goku does his trademark "Screw around and see how strong he gets" thing, he's going to lose, because if he waits for the Hulk to get madder and stronger, Hulk will eventually prove he's the strongest there is. He doesn't really have a cap to that. Same deal with Vegeta. Otherwise, I could see someone more practical like Piccolo, Future Trunks, or Krillin winning just because they would kill Hulk quickly and not mess around.

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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3280: Sep 2nd 2013 at 7:33:07 PM

[up]

Well, Vegeta might view Hulk as a mindless brute and vape him the same way he did Nappa.

When that doesn't work, I really can't see him hurling Hulk into space on instinct.

I mean, when have the Z-Fighters ever done that to anyone?

Goku launched Cooler into the sun inadvertently. I mean, what were his chances that Cooler was going to stand there and take the Kamehemeha full-on, or stay on it once it left orbit?

Closest we ever came was Goku IT'ing Cell away, and only because Cell was going to blow up the Earth.

I guess Goku helped send Broly to the sun... in spirit.

[down]

Dropped it, there was more to discuss.

edited 2nd Sep '13 7:42:08 PM by FOFD

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
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#3281: Sep 2nd 2013 at 7:38:07 PM

Just let it go man.

Yamcha is the series Memetic Loser (I just became aware of this trope).

Hell, he's the series actual loser too.

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#3282: Sep 2nd 2013 at 8:24:06 PM

I don't know this Yamcha is, but it sounds just like Raditz.

edited 2nd Sep '13 8:24:11 PM by MadSkillz

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3283: Sep 2nd 2013 at 8:32:55 PM

Hey, stop making fun of Raditz.

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#3284: Sep 2nd 2013 at 11:05:05 PM

Yeah, Raditz is awesome. He got out of Hell by kicking King Yemma in the balls and running away. Not even Cell ever thought of that. :P

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3285: Sep 3rd 2013 at 7:54:47 PM

Pfft, that Warp That Aesop entry. Obviously someone was so blinded by their tears for the human's uselessness that they didn't see that the ones who were truly "born special" (Piccolo and Vegeta) don't even make it into the top three of fighters.

edited 3rd Sep '13 7:55:28 PM by Saiga

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3286: Sep 3rd 2013 at 11:27:58 PM

I don't know about Goku, but Vegeta is my role model. He has and always will be. cool

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3287: Sep 4th 2013 at 12:12:43 AM

Reposting my SS4 = 40,000x multiplier theory to show to someone else:

First of all, it's important to note the official Super Saiyan multipliers:

Oozaru = 10x base
Super Saiyan 1 = 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 100x base
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base

The GT Perfect Files (GT's guidebook, released in 2 volumes) draws a comparison between Baby Vegeta's 3 forms and the Super Saiyan transformations, suggesting they are counterparts.

Baby in his first form (SS1 counterpart) beats down Super Saiyan 3 kid Goku with ease. That means

Baby Vegeta x 50 > Goku x 400

Let's measure their power levels in units of 1 base Goku, and estimate that Baby is worth 500 Goku to beat him so easy. Once he transforms to his third form, he'd be worth 4,000 Goku.

Next, we need to know how strong Golden Oozaru is. In GT, Goku's tail fur is brown as a Super Saiyan, yet it is golden in Super Saiyan 3. Since the Golden Oozaru is, well, golden, I don't think it'd be combination of Super Saiyan and Oozaru, or the fur would be brown. This also explains why the Super Saiyan 3-less Vegeta turned into a regular Oozaru rather than a Golden one - he didn't posses Super Saiyan 3 at the time of his transformation.

If it's a combination of Super Saiyan 3 and Oozaru, then Golden Oozaru Goku is 4,000 Goku (putting him in Form 3 Baby's league) and Golden Oozaru Baby is 40,000 Goku.

Now, for Super Saiyan 4. A popular theory is that it's not any more powerful than Golden Oozaru, just under the user's control, however this does not work because that would make Golden Oozaru Baby stronger than Super Saiyan 4 Goku. Their fights shows the two of them are even. If Super Saiyan 4 was another 10x boost on top of Golden Oozaru, then lo-and-behold! SS4 Goku is equal to 40,000 base Goku, just like Baby.

edited 4th Sep '13 12:12:56 AM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3288: Sep 4th 2013 at 12:15:42 AM

I thought Gold Oozaru Baby was stronger than Goku, considering he had difficulty keeping up until after everyone else lent him their power.

Or they were equal but Baby just was winning out anyway due to better tactics. I guess that's possible.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3289: Sep 4th 2013 at 12:24:36 AM

Well it's pretty inconsistent because Toei but they were fairly even and scored a double KO until Bulma revived Baby and made him stronger than before.

And when I say stronger, I mean hopeless-for-Goku stronger. What with Oozaru being a 10x boost and all that.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#3290: Sep 4th 2013 at 12:42:54 AM

You know the Super Saiyan tail thing doesn't take into account how it's golden-yellow in all the video games, since I remember Super Saiyan GT!Goku in Budokai Tenkaichi 3 having a yellow tail, so maybe Toei just made an animation mistake.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3291: Sep 4th 2013 at 12:56:20 AM

Well... GT came before those video games, and so the games would be the ones making the mistake. Also, the last game to feature tailed Super Saiyans, Dragon Ball Heroes, gives Super Saiyan 1s brown tails.

And art made for the GT Perfect files uses brown tails as well.

edited 4th Sep '13 12:56:49 AM by Saiga

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
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#3292: Sep 4th 2013 at 12:57:47 AM

Pretty sure the totem pole is: Manga>Supplemental material (Daizenshuus, AT interviews etc)>Anime>Video Games

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#3293: Sep 4th 2013 at 1:28:30 AM

Doesn't really matter at this point since Battle of the Gods is considered canon now, so Super Saiyan God has replaced Golden Ōzaru and Super Saiyan 4.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3294: Sep 4th 2013 at 1:35:43 AM

No, there is no such thing as official canon for Dragon Ball.

edited 4th Sep '13 1:37:34 AM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3295: Sep 4th 2013 at 1:44:51 AM

One of the data books referred to Bills as being the reason why King Kai's planet is so small so the events of Battle of Gods are canon, kind of helps since Akira considers Dragon Ball Online canon to the manga, so the events of GT never happen.

edited 4th Sep '13 1:45:25 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3296: Sep 4th 2013 at 1:50:15 AM

First of all, the databooks also include filler and movies. Second of all, the explanation databooks give is actually different from the explanation given in the Battle of Gods movie for Kaio's history with Beers. Thirdly, there's no official canon, and Toriyama has never said anything like that about Dragon Ball Online.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#3297: Sep 4th 2013 at 1:59:54 AM

I'm pretty sure Battle of Gods is canon, just for the sheer fact it gave us so many world-building facts; after all, why make the possibility of alternate universes if you're not going to do anything with it.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3298: Sep 4th 2013 at 2:08:14 AM

No. Official. Canon. Believe what you like, but the bottom line is that word is useless without any official statement on the matter.

GT gave plenty of world building as well, as did filler and movies.

edited 4th Sep '13 2:08:38 AM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#3299: Sep 4th 2013 at 2:17:22 AM

You know, the alternate universe thing could make all the movies, Online, and GT canon in some way, shape, or form.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3300: Sep 4th 2013 at 2:21:15 AM

That'd make the whole canon discussion meaningless. Not that it isn't already.


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