TOEI does not pay attention to detail, that scene was not in the comic... after I saw Digimon Tamers I regained faith in the company but their filler was just partially why I used to be in TOEI's hatedom (I would have just moved, either way...eventually, hating is hard)
Modified Ura-nage, Torture RackYeah. Despite what Filler would tell you, the Kienzan cuts through anything.
It's an energy blade, and should be unblockable. That's why everyone else he used it on had to dodge it, even though they were stronger. It's only flaw is that it can be dodged(and Krillin's tendency to yell KIENZAN!!! and give himself away).
One Strip! One Strip!Well to be fair, everyone calls out their attacks.
But yeah, I guess he kinda is. Probably because if the attacks actually worked, the villains would be dead and there would be no story.
One Strip! One Strip!Because Cell was just that much stronger. I like it this way, otherwise you get the silly situation of Krillin being able to one-shot Super Vegetto.
We don't know that, we only just see it cut what it hits. But judging by the fact no one ever tries to use it against the androids, I'd say that it's not an all invincible one hit kill attack.
Correction: Yamcha still holds the distinction of being the first person to fight Goku to a draw after he took Goku off guard in an ambush while Goku was malnourished and Yamcha had a sword.
The distinction here is that Vegeta gets good moments to balance it out. He saved Goku from 19, saved everyone from Zarbon (badass-edly offing him in the process), saved Gohan from Cell, et cetera. Yamcha I think won one fight (with help), won another training fight with Recoome (in filler), and never did anything ever.
Also, Vegeta can make eating shit look badass. See the anime version of Pure Buu vs Vegeta. Yamcha makes the Kamehameha look lame.
Only on Freeza. They tried to use it against Cell (in filler) and Buu (in the manga), and both times failed for obvious reasons.
edited 24th Aug '13 6:00:56 PM by sockpuppet1
I only count the Buu example, and it makes sense (he can regenerate from being blown to chunks, and then regenerate from the smoke made when those chunks are destroyed, so cutting him in half would be pretty useless).
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
Nah, the scene where Cell shrugs off the Kienzan is like the scene where Yamcha beat Recoome; non-canon Toei filler. The reason Krillin can't one-shot Super Vegitto with Kienzan is because he's not fast enough. It's the same reason Spider-Man would lose a fight to the Flash. Does he have the strength to OHKO? Yeah, but good luck landing a hit.
Due to the kienzan, Krillin's uselessness in combat is more about his complete and utter failure to use his skills properly than simply not being able to compete.
edited 24th Aug '13 10:11:48 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Just because the Kienzan is sharp doesn't mean shit. Goku blocked a sword with his finger that sliced up Freeza. The idea that Kuririn can one-shot anyone with his Kienzan if he hit them is baseless.
Also Yamcha lost to Mummy, he didn't beat him. He never won a single fight without help.
The humans not learning Kaio-ken doesn't make the trip pointless. Cru already pointed out that Kaio's planet was the best place for them to be if they were going to have any appearance in that arc. I also agree with him that it's better for them not learning it. Also, there's no invisible Kaio-ken in the manga, so I dislike that fanon. Whether the anime meant to imply he was using invisible Kaio-ken is rather vague.
In other news, VizBigs 4 and 5 have finally been reprinted and my order has arrived! Now I own the entire series at last.
Was thinking of doing a liveblog reading of the series when I'm not so busy with Uni or something.
edited 31st Aug '13 7:34:37 AM by Saiga
That is a good point, though a sword is a physical thing. The Kienzan is energy. Then again, characters block energy all the time.
I'm gonna have to say agree to disagree on this one. Since you consider the Manga the only source that is canon, I'll say that since we never see anyone stopping it in the Manga, we can't say it can be stopped.
As for Invisible Kaiouken, I was under the impression that they were saying that Goku was using it so fast, that we the audience didn't know until King Kai pointed it out (it is made to be used in short bursts after all, and against certain enemies, it would be a good way to keep them guessing about his real power level).
But again, I'll say agree to disagree.
One Strip! One Strip!"since we never see anyone stopping it in the Manga, we can't say it can be stopped."
That's terrible logic. You don't assume something has properties it isn't proven to or even hinted at having just because it isn't disproven.
Characters block sharp objects all the time. Characters block energy all the time. Though we can't say for sure the Kienzan can be blocked, evidence supports it. We have absolutely no reason to believe it can cut anything.
And as far as manga goes, there's no invisible Kaio-ken because even before Kaio says anything, we see when Goku uses the Kaio-ken. He gets the aura and everything, Tenshinhan just didn't know since he's not actually watching the battle. The audience, however, definitely knew. The anime has Goku use no Kaio-ken aura until Kaio says so, and then we see earlier scenes with the aura edited in. This is what made people believe in the invisible Kaio-ken, but since they're the exact same scenes it seems like the "truth" is that he did have the aura and the previous scenes were meant to be like a lie or something. Toei is weird.
edited 31st Aug '13 7:56:21 AM by Saiga
....Also true.
I want to believe that it's hard to stop however because it's pretty much Krillin's best attack.
Also, there's some implication it's not easy to block, otherwise Vegeta wouldn't have told Nappa to dodge, and Frieza wouldn't have needed to duck out of the way. Both (especially the latter) are a lot stronger than Krillin.
That being said, if you are strong enough, it might be possible to catch it the way that energy is block, I won't deny that.
Edit: Oh. Well maybe that's just Toei trying their own interpretation of the scene. But I agree, not invisible Kaiouken.
edited 31st Aug '13 7:59:16 AM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!
Well I agree with you on the Masan......Special Beam Canon.
There probably are enemies strong enough to block the Kienzan, but outside of filler scenes, we never really see them.
Alright, I concede on this one. Since most attacks depend on the power of the person using them, there would likely be a point where it could kill someone because it's user (Krillin) is too weak.
One Strip! One Strip!Technically beat Goku the very first time.
Was doing pretty good against the mummy, sans Baba's cheating.
Lost against Tien and Roshi, the two most powerful fighters to appear at that time short of Goku and Piccolo.
Krillin beat the fat, smelly man in the first tournament via... an odd, biological observation.
He beat the rest of the Saibamen.
Beat a couple of mooks in the Frieza Saga.
Did 'some' damage to Frieza.
—
This pissing contest going to continue? Because I can add that Yamcha died fewer times than Krillin did.
...
...take that.
edited 31st Aug '13 8:52:14 AM by FOFD
Dude. I understand, but you can't win trying to defend Yamcha.
The whole world is against you. They will not let you win this.
You must let it go.
One Strip! One Strip!
Touche.
I still stand by my theory that Yamcha is more self taught then the other characters. That's why he's so bad compared to them.
One Strip! One Strip!Well, it's Dragonball Evolution.
....no....let us not speak of it anymore.
It hurts my soul.
One Strip! One Strip!@FOFD
You forgot: Bought time against Nappa together with Piccolo
Saved Gohan and Vegeta from Recoome
Bought precious time against 2nd form Frieza (in addition to doing damage to him)
Saved a woman and her child from Imperfect Cell
Sorry man, but trying to suggest that Yamcha managed even half of what Krillin did is laughable at best. Everything he did on Namek alone overshadows Yamcha's feats by lightyears.
edited 31st Aug '13 10:10:58 AM by kay4today
Well, I like that stuff because those are actual facts.
Hell, up until that stunt where he smashed the remote, Krillin was my favourite (and he's still high up there), and the thing is that Vegeta screwed up as badly as Krillin did.
One Strip! One Strip!Krillin got punched too often on the head it seems.
"N-No, the robot woman I've met like 2 times must not die! I LOVE HER!"
Brain damage.
I like Krillin because he's much weaker than just about everyone, but still somehow manages to make a difference and fights against enemies that he's scared shitless of.
edited 31st Aug '13 10:34:28 AM by kay4today

Yes, but he was originally winning the fight before Baba starting singing loudly so Yamcha couldn't heard the invisible man's movement.
edited 24th Aug '13 7:23:31 AM by theweirdKiddokun
The Reaper Games starts anew.