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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31901: Jan 2nd 2016 at 5:32:34 PM

Even with Instant Transmission, Super 17 managed to keep up with and follow Goku in GT.

It counts...kinda.

I'll show myself out.

edited 2nd Jan '16 5:33:04 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31902: Jan 2nd 2016 at 5:35:55 PM

The biggest thing is that Goku needs to concentrate which creates a delay before he even disappears.

Which is part of why the Warp Kamehameha was only used on Cell. He needed a large window to both prepare a full power Kamehameha and teleport, and deliberately aimed at the Earth in order to create that window. Cell didn't stop him because he thought it was a bluff.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#31903: Jan 2nd 2016 at 5:38:23 PM

To be fair, how often does anyone tries to interrupt a technique that doesn't explicitly take upwards of like five minutes to set up?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31904: Jan 2nd 2016 at 5:39:15 PM

Ten tried to get into Kikoho position twice against Nappa but got interrupted both times.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#31905: Jan 2nd 2016 at 5:40:24 PM

Iirc,IT tends to teleport you in the same pose,so the opposition could possibly react appropriately,if sharp/fast enough.

I should cut down on "also"es.

edited 2nd Jan '16 5:42:08 PM by alekos23

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31906: Jan 2nd 2016 at 5:48:24 PM

The actual transmission itself is instant - it's just Goku who isn't as fast.

Also, the Instant Kamehameha would probably become a lot more viable as a technique with practice. Goku improvised it against Cell.

Yo, Saiga, did you get a chance to ask? I honestly haven't checked BL's Grand Order thread in a while.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31907: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:00:44 PM

Oh yeah I did, they said "we don't know". It's not something you can find out by data-mining, apparently, and there isn't anyone doing enough rolls to get a proper sample size.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31908: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:05:55 PM

'kay.

So I'm just going to assume it works on the most idiotic way possible. That is, it rolls the worst quality first and only gives you a shot at a 5 star if all else has failed.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#31909: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:17:25 PM

That instant transmission sure is a useful technique. Bah, it's not match for The Flash.

When I brought up Bob Sapp I was referring to Toriyama's interview Dragon Ball Forever. What's your excuse?

Buldogue's lawyer
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#31910: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:19:49 PM

So Bob Sapp exists in the Dragon Ball universe?

My various fanfics.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#31911: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:31:14 PM

Well, obviously...probably....maybe not, but he should, it's a waste if he doesn't. Problem is, Sapp's popularity started to trail off in 2006 and Toriyama wouldn't actually be involved in another Dragon Ball project until 2010.

The DB Forever interview occurred in 2004, when Sapp was still the biggest thing in Japan but Toriyama had no desire to draw Dragon Ball.

Buldogue's lawyer
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#31912: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:36:34 PM

Also, Bob Sapp is infamous for being a chump and taking dives in fights, and is mostly popular in Japan due to racism. So the idea of Mr. Hercule Satan losing to Sapp in a fight is silly.

My various fanfics.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31913: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:37:50 PM

Yes, that was clearly a joke based particularly on Sapp's reputation as a jobber.

Do you think Toriyama even knows how strong Sapp really is? It's based on his persona.

edited 2nd Jan '16 6:38:26 PM by Saiga

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31915: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:44:49 PM

I do wonder if Mr. Satan could take, say, Nam.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31916: Jan 2nd 2016 at 6:55:57 PM

Ten tried to get into Kikoho position twice against Nappa but got interrupted both times.

Really? Man, I really gotta pay attention to that fight.

Then again, I probably didn't realize it when I watched it the first time cause I watched the original Next Dimension Dub of DBZ, so I didn't actually know what the Kikoho was.

edited 2nd Jan '16 6:57:46 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#31917: Jan 2nd 2016 at 7:01:49 PM

Actually, it could. The Flash still has to, y'know, actually move from place to place. Near instantaneously, yes, but that 'near' there makes all the difference.

Goku still needs to put his fingers up. Flash could literally break said fingers in the time it would take for Go-

Flash could go home and make a sandwich in the time it took Goku to lift his hand. The Speed Force is f'cking broken.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31918: Jan 2nd 2016 at 7:03:53 PM

He could make a sandwich for every person on the planet and make sure they've eaten it and gone on to fill fulfilling lives in the time it takes Goku to raise his fingers.

That is how little sense the Speed Force makes.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31919: Jan 2nd 2016 at 7:06:02 PM

We're not talking about Goku here though - we're talking about Instant Transmission, the technique.

In other news, Mr. Satan can probably defeat Nam. If only because Mr. Satan is insanely tough. Motherfucker tanked a bitchslap from Perfect Cell.

[up]The Flash could literally make the Sandwich before he actually thought of making the sandwich. That's how stupid the whole thing is.

edited 2nd Jan '16 7:07:04 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#31920: Jan 2nd 2016 at 7:12:20 PM

There's a grandfather paradox joke in this somewhere.

Hercule? Beat Nam? No way. Nam jumped like 200-500 feet in the air. So he could crush his opponent with his forearms.

The only way he could possibly master this technique is to jump off of cliffs and ram his arms into the ground. That, or he spontaneously decided to do so after he realized he could jump that high. Either way, that's insane.

edited 2nd Jan '16 7:14:29 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#31921: Jan 2nd 2016 at 7:14:37 PM

Again 2004 Sapp, not 2010 Sapp or even 2006 Sapp. This was still the Bob Sapp with an 800 lbs squat who crossed over from unknown indie wrestler to legit K1 fighter to Mixed Martial Artist, beating several of the best fighters in the world doing nothing but rush forward while swinging his arms]]. It was only after the interview that his fellow fighters figured out how to beat him, he was stripped of the IWGP Heavyweight Title due to Inokism, the once dominant beast had to come to terms with the fact he now had medical bills to pay and decided the best way to solve his new found problems was get in as many money matches as he could with the philosophy of quitting the moment it looked like he might get hurt.

Sapp was popular in Japan because he beat people up, and just because he sold out at the expense of his reputation doesn't mean he still isn't a strong guy. Mir Cro Cop, the man who broke Sapp's orbital bone and thus was partially responsible for sending Sapp on his downwards spiral, insisted many years after the fact that it wasn't an easy fight and that Sapp was still a beast who could be a great fighter if he improved his training. Toriyama didn't say Sapp would beat Satan, he said Satan was weaker than Sapp.(Lashley and Akebono were probably the only opponents who were maybe as strong as Sapp. The man was a guard on the offensive line]], a position that requires you to be one of the biggest strongest guys ever.)

Buldogue's lawyer
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31922: Jan 2nd 2016 at 8:06:07 PM

Are we talking abut Bobby Lashley? Sorry, not really into MMA but there is some crossover with wrestling, which I do know.

Lesnar is stronger than Lashley.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#31923: Jan 2nd 2016 at 8:11:20 PM

For instances of weaker characters triumphing over stronger characters? Ignoring the use of power-boosting techniques like the Kaio-ken or alternative victories like Buu absorbing Gohan...

Goku and Piccolo taking down Raditz. In this case, Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon was charged up to the point that its power level exceeded Raditz's, however, so there is still an element of numerical superiority.

Vegeta killing transformed Zarbon. Apparently even after his zenkai he was weaker than Zarbon, but managed to win with some dirty tactics. This is the purest example of a weaker character triumphing over a stronger.

Perfect Cell being untouchable to Trunks, due to the latter's mobility issue. In this case Cell didn't really "win" so much as prove that Trunks couldn't win, and then was inspired to host the Cell Games.

That's about it as far as I know, though. Maybe some of the fights in the old Dragon Ball, but we don't really have measurements to use.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31924: Jan 2nd 2016 at 8:18:06 PM

I wouldn't even count the last example. Cell very easily could have made himself stronger than Trunks, and demonstrated that he could, he simply didn't need to.

It was a nice twist but it's not really an example of a weaker character beating a stronger one. It's an example of stronger character letting themselves seem weaker than another character because, either way, they weren't going to lose.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31925: Jan 2nd 2016 at 8:19:06 PM

Vegeta killing transformed Zarbon. Apparently even after his zenkai he was weaker than Zarbon, but managed to win with some dirty tactics. This is the purest example of a weaker character triumphing over a stronger.

Oh right. I keep forgetting about the Zarbon thing. As I understand, he threw dirt in his eyes, and that last move he did (where he punched a hole in Zarbon's stomach and fired a point blank blast into his chest).

There must have been other stuff too though. Hard to believe simple dirty fighting turned the tide like that. I mean, I know it can, but it's rarely a factor at that level unless it's the villains doing it.

One Strip! One Strip!

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