You offer your counterpoint and proceed to disprove your counterpoint. Goku wanted to leave Freeza as a broken shell of his former self. He wanted Freeza to live knowing that he had been utterly humiliated even at his strongest and there was nothing he could do about it. As soon as it was apparent that wasn't going to be a thing, Goku killed him.
No, he didn't. He counterattacked the beam Frieza stupidly launched at him. Frieza had to force Goku to finish him off, and even that wasn't even enough to actually do the deed.
Keeping in mind that Goku has previously killed plenty of people in his Base form and is not a Pacifist by any version of the concept.
edited 31st Dec '15 7:16:38 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.What you said doesn't disprove what I said. That beam attack that he countered was what proved that leaving Freeza a broken shell of his former self wasn't going to happen. Also, it's not Goku's fault that Freeza displayed a ridiculous amount of survivability that was unprecedented at that point.
I never once called Goku a pacifist and I never once claimed that he didn't kill anyone.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!The beam attack that he countered was an attack flying at his face that he needed to deal with. Goku responding to that with violent force is not a carefully calculated choice made to kill an adversary. It's Goku responding to an attack flying at his face.
The fact is, you claim that Goku needed to remain on Yardrat or else he would be a danger to the Earth and kill tons of people the next time he transforms but this is not supported. Goku is no less merciful to Frieza than he was to Piccolo Daimao, to the Red Ribbon Army, to the Saiyans, to the Ginyu Force.
Furthermore, it's never indicated that mastering the Super Saiyan form had anything to do with Goku's motivation for remaining on Yardrat. When the wish to resurrect him is made, he simply refuses to return for no stated reason. When he arrives and is asked why he took so long returning, he explains,
"Well, I didn't have much time, so I only had them teach me one technique and even that was a real pain to learn."
and then goes on to explain the Instant Transmission / Instantaneous Movement / Shunkan Ido. By his own admission, the only training he did on the planet was learning the teleportation. The rest of his time was recuperating and transit, which wouldn't be a problem if he hadn't refused to be teleported home for it.
edited 31st Dec '15 7:27:58 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Didn't the Porunga say that Goku was trying to master Super Saiyan (and gain control over it so he could transform at will) when Goku refused to be teleported.
Why is it hard to believe he worked on learning to use it while learning instant transmission on Yardrat? I mean, he knew it changed him significantly compared to his usual self, so it makes sense.
As for not being full powered at that point, maybe it never occurred to him to try that until the room of time and spirit.
One Strip! One Strip!- PORUNGA: He refuses to come back. He says he will return on his own time.
- GOHAN: He refused? But why?
- KAME-SENNIN: I know why! It's because that man is terrified of his own wife! The real strongest being in the universe is Son Goku's WIFE!!
- CHI-CHI: (brandishes sword)
- KAME-SENNIN: Heh...j-joking!! I'm joking!!
- PICCOLO: He said he would come back on his own in due time. We may as well use this chance to bring back someone still at Kaio's.
That is all that's said on the matter during the conversation with Porunga. No reason is ever given except for Kame-sennin's obvious joke, and the only reason Goku provides when he does return is that he was recuperating on Yardrat and then he wanted to learn Shunkan Ido. Goku trying to master Super Saiyan is never even hinted at.
edited 31st Dec '15 8:34:45 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Incidentally, Instant Transmission might just be the single most lethal technique in Goku's arsenal, despite being ostensibly not an attack.
Against a non regenerating opponent that Goku can actually hurt and/or kill, an Instant Kamehameha is pretty much an instant win.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Agreed. I'm surprised Goku doesn't use it the way he did against Cell. It'd compensate for those times when his enemy is faster by letting him zip around the battlefield quite quickly.
And if his opponent can sense ki, they'd likely lose track of him.
I re-call that scene from Return of Coola where he and Coola were doing exactly that. And I think he did something like that in the movie version of Battle Of Gods as well right?
One Strip! One Strip!I like the first instance of this better because you can tell just how desperate Goku is to win at that point. The second time though, Beerus doesn't see it coming at all.
Damn it. The more I rewatch this, the more I see why everybody says the Frieza rematch was lame.
edited 31st Dec '15 8:48:54 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!Instant Transsmion saved them on so many occasion. Cell explosion, getting Dendy from Namek, saving Piccolo from Cell etc.
Well, in the Buu saga he only fights Yakon, who's so much weaker that there's no point, Veget who he doesn't want to kill, and Buu who he can hit just fine, but who has even better regeneration than Cell. Not much place to use it.
He does use it against Beerus tho.
Didn't I already explain that was a Boston Crab, in detail?
edited 1st Jan '16 11:46:20 PM by IndirectActiveTransport
Buldogue's lawyerSo here are two random thoughts:
1) Toriyama has said 17 and 18 can grow stronger if they actually train. Considering they were more powerful than an untrained Frieza by accident, I wonder how powerful they could grow. They'd be total game breakers if they bothered, since they can't get tired....well, unless Beerus, Whis, or most version of Buu came into the picture....or Dabura landed a lucky loogie).
2) And I've asked this before, but how small do you think the gap has to be for a weaker fighter to beat a stronger one. We know, without any doubt, that with a few exceptions, the warrior with the higher power level wins. No bullshitting. Nappa was 4000. Piccolo was 3500. A 500 number gap was still enough for Piccolo to be hopelessly outmatched along with the rest of them, but there has to be a point where the difference is so small that being the weaker fighter is academic.
I hope this one catches on. I know it's still kinda about Power Levels, but I tried to put a new spin on it. Plus, I'm curious to what everyone else thinks.
One Strip! One Strip!

I see your point, but as a counterpoint, he still attempted to spare Frieza's life twice and was content to stand idly by and allow Frieza to power up to 100% while he was a Super Saiyan. Yes, it was a Cruel Mercy, but it still showed that Goku had plenty of control over his actions before he escaped Namek. He was more aggressive, but he was also far from a mindless rage monster that would destroy the Earth.
edited 31st Dec '15 7:12:36 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.