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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31826: Dec 30th 2015 at 4:58:13 PM

At the start of the Android arc, Trunks travelled back in time to keep Goku alive because the only hope for the Earth was if Goku lived to combat the deadly challenges that were coming with or without him. At the end of the arc, Goku concludes that the only hope for the Earth is if he's dead and the challenges come without him. The entire Buu Saga is the consequence for this decision.

That's really unfair.

Him being dead was not the only reason everyone died to the Androids. They were also unprepared. Trunks even said that if Goku lived, he would have just got killed with everyone else. The warning was more important.

Goku then was able to set up Gohan to defeat Cell, which is not someone they should have faced at all if not for the time travel changing things to begin with.

The Boo arc happens entirely because Goku came back. His presence set off Vegeta which lead to him helping Majin Boo be revived. If anything, the post-Cell arc stuff actually validates Goku's decision.

Boo is released because he is present.

Beerus (apparently) doesn't visit Earth if Goku's not alive and prophesied to fight him.

Freeza trained because he heard how strong Goku was, and returned for revenge against him. If Goku were dead he would have been informed about it by his scouts.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#31827: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:00:24 PM

If Goku hadn't come back for the tournament, Vegeta wouldn't have a reason to get pissy and either him or Gohan would beat Dabura. Buu would never have been released.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31828: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:11:23 PM

[up][up]The most that would've happened out of Freeza's revival is him going off half cocked without any real training and ending up one-hit-killed by Gohan. Because he totally would go to destroy Earth out of spite.

edited 30th Dec '15 5:12:47 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31829: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:17:23 PM

NVM.

edited 30th Dec '15 5:17:50 PM by LSBK

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31830: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:32:29 PM

Buu would have stayed sealed up if Goku hadn't decided stroking Vegeta's ego was more important than the lives of billions of other people.

SSJ 3 = insta pwned Vegeta.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#31831: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:36:33 PM

I don't know what your comment is getting at, considering I've never claimed that the dub was perfect, flawless or anything of the sort.

We like people for their virtues and love them for their flaws, and the same can be true about dubs. The DB-DBZ (pre Kai) LA dub was great, but it sometimes had those amusing derps that added to it.

edited 30th Dec '15 5:36:45 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31832: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:46:54 PM

[up]Of course.

By the by, if Goku had gone SSJ 3... he probably would've released Buu just with the process of transforming alone.

Do remember that the SSJ 3 transformation is the most epic transformation in the series and in the anime, it literally takes five minutes.

edited 30th Dec '15 5:47:19 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#31833: Dec 30th 2015 at 5:59:39 PM

I'm pretty sure Buu only gained power when one of the people under Babidi's control inflicted damage on others. It's why they gained absolutely no energy from Pui Pui or Yakon. They should have gained loads of power from Goku going SSJ 2.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31834: Dec 30th 2015 at 6:04:14 PM

Boo needs "good energy" so Babidi can't use his own minions. Since it takes the energy "lost" through damage, it might take energy lost through using transformations, which could be why Gohan didn't want to use Super Saiyan 2.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31835: Dec 30th 2015 at 6:34:28 PM

Goku's energy was being eaten by Yakon when he went SSJ 2. Of course it didn't give Buu very much energy.

Goku is also very good at transforming, he can most likely do a transformation to SSJ 2 where he doesn't let out all that much energy - he deliberately fed Yakon, after all.

While I'm almost certain that the SSJ 3 transformation he used against Buu was purposefully flashy and dragged out, it's still a transformation that bleeds a shitton of energy.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31836: Dec 30th 2015 at 6:39:03 PM

It's funny that despite the fact that he was losing that fight, Gohan never suffered enough damage from Dabura to revive Buu.

If Gohan had really been in shape, there would have been no fight.

Although that's the whole point.

As for Goku going SSJ 3, it would have ended the battle much sooner, but I think Goku might not have wanted to use it yet because he was afraid of potential drawbacks.

True, at that point he didn't know it would burn his energy up, but Goku is smart enough to know no technique (especially an untested one like SSJ 3) is perfect. I assume that in-universe, he avoided using it because he didn't want to try something he wasn't sure of unless he had no choice.

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31837: Dec 30th 2015 at 6:41:47 PM

I was never sure why Kid Buu's fists could hurt Fat Buu, but not Dabura's spear.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31838: Dec 30th 2015 at 6:43:58 PM

I think it's just a matter of Kid Buu being stronger than Fat Buu while Dabura was much weaker than him.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31839: Dec 30th 2015 at 6:44:44 PM

Pretty much.

Fat Buu lasted longer than most guys would, because he's hella durable, but being stronger has always been a big factor in a fight.

One Strip! One Strip!
MsCC93 Since: May, 2012
#31840: Dec 30th 2015 at 7:16:12 PM

Does anyone visit the Kanzenshuu forums?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#31842: Dec 30th 2015 at 7:23:02 PM

Santa Rin does?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#31843: Dec 30th 2015 at 7:23:49 PM

But Luvia is the one that goes (o) ho ho ho!

edited 30th Dec '15 7:23:57 PM by Arha

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31844: Dec 30th 2015 at 7:25:57 PM

rin does it in carnival phantasm

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#31845: Dec 30th 2015 at 7:29:33 PM

The first is blunt force trauma. Buu can stretch around and regenerate but still has internal organs, which require regenerating when his body is denting. Dabura was weaker and slower than Buu, so he could use more energy towards regeneration, regeneration does take energy. He could barely land a hit on the small Buu, he needed to use a lot of energy just to keep up, thus less dedicated to regenerating.

Buldogue's lawyer
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#31847: Dec 30th 2015 at 9:18:55 PM

@Ms CC 933 I lurk. And I actually have an account now, so I guess I post as well.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31848: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:02:02 AM

I still hold to the theory that Goku chose to stay in space in order to master the Super Saiyan transformation so that way he won't completely snap and blow up the Earth the next time he used it.

I have trouble with that theory on account of the fact that, when Goku returned to Earth, not only was he not a Full Power Super Saiyan but he couldn't even control his strength in Base. Rather than having fully mastered his newfound power, he actually has less control of it than any time we ever see a new instance of post-Training Goku before or since.

He's almost certainly increased his strength on Yardrat given the way he parries Trunks, but that just means he's been working on his upper limit. He still has so little control over his lower limit that he slaps Chi-Chi through a wall. For this reason, I find it doubtful that his decision to stay on Yardrat had anything to do with learning to control his power for the safety of the Earth; learning cool new techniques and increasing his strength is more strongly suggested.

The Boo arc happens entirely because Goku came back. His presence set off Vegeta which lead to him helping Majin Boo be revived. If anything, the post-Cell arc stuff actually validates Goku's decision.

Boo is released because he is present.

Goku's presence set off Vegeta because this was Vegeta's last chance to ever test his mettle against Goku before he returns to perma-death, and the Buu thing resulted in his rematch constantly being ignored. The only thing he wanted was his one last fight with Goku. If Goku wasn't dead, then Goku's 24 Hours would not have been Vegeta's only opportunity to ever fight him again. Babidi's detour would just be another day at the office.

Vegeta gave himself to Babidi out of a desperation that only existed because he felt like Babidi, Kaioshin, and Goku himself were doing everything in their power to deny him his closure on Goku's final day.

EDIT: And even if the pod did somehow get unsealed without Majin Vegeta, Goku also wouldn't have the fact of himself being dead motivating him to leave the future to Goten and Trunks, either. Gotenks only happened because they were the last hope after Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were all dead or presumed so. Without that desperation, there would be nothing holding Goku back from annihilating Fat Buu as a Super Saiyan 3.

Beerus (apparently) doesn't visit Earth if Goku's not alive and prophesied to fight him.

That doesn't make any sense. Beerus didn't visit Earth for Goku, he went for Vegeta once he confirmed that Goku knew nothing of a Super Saiyan God. Goku was training with Kaio-sama at the time. He would have been doing that dead or alive.

Do remember that the SSJ 3 transformation is the most epic transformation in the series and in the anime, it literally takes five minutes.

Goku was stalling for time when he did that. Same reason why he gave Majin Buu a descriptive lesson in the history of the Super Saiyan form and powered up to 1 and 2 first.

edited 31st Dec '15 7:09:07 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#31849: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:08:25 AM

[up] By "master the Super Saiyan transformation" I meant that he wanted to make sure he had control over himself. Do remember when he shouted at Gohan to run away while he still had any form of self-control.

Also, there's no guarantee that Goku would even have Super Saiyan 3 if he weren't dead given the massive energy drain and the fact that he probably wouldn't be training as much since the dead don't get tired.

edited 31st Dec '15 7:11:06 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#31850: Dec 31st 2015 at 7:09:57 AM

Learning Instant Transmission was one of the best decisions Goku ever made. He got a shit ton millage out of the technique.


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