TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#3001: Aug 3rd 2013 at 11:12:55 PM

When even Dr. Gero is a complete nincompoop despite his technology

How?

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3002: Aug 4th 2013 at 3:25:19 AM

Since I refuse to watch the movie, can anyone confirm something I've been seeing a lot? Basically, it's that SS 2 Vegeta is stronger than SS 3 Goku.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3003: Aug 4th 2013 at 4:45:32 AM

...no, I don't know what movie is supposed to suggest that, but - at least in the anime, I don't know about the manga - during the fight with Kid Buu, the point was made that SSJ 3 Goku could have defeated Kid Buu but threw the fight so that Vegeta could have a chance to do it, while SSJ 2 Vegeta ultimately got his ass handed to him.

Majin Vegeta might be stronger than SSJ 2 Goku, but Goku threw THAT fight too, so it's inconclusive.

Goku never tries to win anymore after Freeza.

edited 4th Aug '13 4:46:40 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#3004: Aug 4th 2013 at 4:51:32 AM

Considering how there's no naturally born villain in the universe that could give goku a chance at that point, why should he try?

Watch Symphogear
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#3005: Aug 4th 2013 at 5:01:39 AM

I'm talking about Battle of the Gods. I'll only watch it dubbed. From what I hear, Vegeta managed to do more damage to Bills through brute force than SS 3 Goku ever did.

Seeing this, Vegeta goes berserk and unleashes his rage as he powers up. He knocks Beerus around, and Kame-Sen’nin says in amazement that it looks like Vegeta has surpassed Goku.

Oh, well then.

So seeing as every universe has its own God of destruction, it is now my headcanon that the God of Destruction for the GT universe was Omega Shenron. He certainly fits the bill.

edited 4th Aug '13 7:15:07 AM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#3006: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:22:36 AM

Maybe Toriyama was giving Super Saiyan 3 a Take That!.

  1. Super Saiyan: Awesomeness.
  2. Super Saiyan 2: Double the awesomeness.
  3. Super Saiyan 3: Actually impractical, unwieldy, gimmicky, and ultimately pointless.
  4. Super Saiyan 4: Yes, I know its status in the canon is dubious, and it doesn't really fit considering that Vegeta became Super Saiyan 4 without even reaching Super Saiyan 3. Besides, I think it would have been better to call it "Super Saiyan Beast". smile

I doubt Goku would have been able to beat Beers/Bills even if he tried Super Saiyan 4. tongue

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
sockpuppet1 Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3007: Aug 4th 2013 at 2:25:01 PM

Goku never tries to win anymore after Freeza.

He tries to win and he loses plenty of times. Against 19, Cell, a Cell Junior, Kid Buu...

I think that the anime thing might be dub only. In the manga Vegeta says that Goku was just stalling so Vegeta'd get a turn, and that he should cut it out, because Vegeta doesn't have a chance anyway. But Goku says "No, I'm really trying, I just can't win".

TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#3008: Aug 4th 2013 at 6:03:48 PM

To me, Dragon Ball is a prime example of why you have to look carefully over multiple versions of the story. You have so many different versions saying so many different things between them that you can get headaches trying to keep track of it all.

How about Dragon Ball GT? I know that one is infamous for plot holes to the point of being called "GT logic". However, a number of the plot holes occurred because they were based off of lines from the original DBZ Funimation dub, which really did not match up to what was said in the original version. That, and a number of the contradictions occurred with DBZ filler, and if you just take out the filler, you would have less plot holes.

Still, there are some plot holes that are quite interesting:

  1. Dr. Myuu creates Machine Mutants and his crowning achievement is a Machine Mutant named Baby. But then a shocking swerve occurs where the doctor gets killed off and Baby reveals that he was the one who created Myuu! It's later revealed that Baby is apparently a creation of the Tuffles. But here's a question: how does an inactive little fetus in a tank create a Machine Mutant scientist?
  2. Gohan turning Super Saiyan despite becoming Mystic/Ultimate years ago is often cited as a plot hole. Although a critical point to make here is that Gohan can still go Super Saiyan but he doesn't need to. And here's another question: did they ever say that the Mystic/Ultimate form is permanent? Because if it isn't, then it would have worn off and Gohan would have to go back to using Super Saiyan.
  3. Bad guys come out of Hell with physical bodies. Aren't they supposed to be formless spirits? If they retained their bodies, then they would be doing lots of level grinding for all those years.
  4. Piccolo sacrifices himself to make sure to Black Star Dragon Balls will never be used again. But wait, control over the Dragon Balls got switched to Dende, didn't they? So shouldn't Dende be the one to make the sacrifice?

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3009: Aug 4th 2013 at 6:15:48 PM

That last one is not a plot hole. The Black Star Dragon Balls were created by the original nameless Namekian. They went inert after they split into Kami and Piccolo, but their reunion essentially counted as the original creator being "revived", so they became active again.

They were never passed to Dende.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#3010: Aug 4th 2013 at 8:22:12 PM

"It doesn't make a bit of difference, Guys. The Balls are inert."

I still love that meme.

Watch Symphogear
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3011: Aug 4th 2013 at 8:43:10 PM

Well, who doesn't love inert balls?

Well, maybe the guy who has them, but he don't count.tongue

edited 4th Aug '13 8:43:33 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#3012: Aug 4th 2013 at 8:48:27 PM

So the Rock the Dragon set actually looks kinda cool. tongue

That's how I started off watching DBZ, but I dunno if I'd drop 100 bones on it nonetheless. I guess I'm mostly interested in that sweet, sweet booklet that comes with it.

Do not obey in advance.
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#3013: Aug 4th 2013 at 8:52:52 PM

To answer two. We don't know if Gohan lost the ability to transform. Back when we were talking about GT a lot, Saiga and I talk about this topic a lot. Old Kai only said that transforming is the wrong way to go about things. GT is based on the anime made by Toei while Funimation only change some of the dialogue and some of parts of the scene (for censorship) they can't change everything.

The Reaper Games starts anew.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3014: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:25:01 PM

I thought I remembered something about "Mystic Gohan" replacing Gohan's SSJ transformation entirely; that Gohan triggered it the same way he would trigger his SSJ, but Mystic Gohan is what happens instead. I don't think anyone ever said he can't transform again, but it's implied in the fact that his transformation was replaced by the new form.

That being said, retconning something that was implied is at a much lower level of heresy than retconning something that was directly established.

edited 4th Aug '13 9:25:47 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#3015: Aug 4th 2013 at 9:34:21 PM

In the manga Gohan just powered up. The anime added the green eyes. Well I mostly say that because I don't really count it as retcon so much.

edited 4th Aug '13 9:37:16 PM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3016: Aug 4th 2013 at 11:53:37 PM

No, Old Kaioshin said "do that Super Saiyan thing" and Gohan turned Mystic/Ultimate, and was then told that Super Saiyan was the wrong way of doing things. Also, if he could go Super Saiyan, then he'd do it against Bootenks, unless turning Super Saiyan didn't make him stronger any more. But if turning Super Saiyan didn't make him stronger, he wouldn't do it in GT because it's wasting energy for nothing.

So matter which way you slice it, it's inconsistent.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3017: Aug 6th 2013 at 6:30:49 PM

I forgot how badass the animation for Dragon Ball used to be.

Best part starts at 4:11. The movies may be inconsistent, but they had some damn good fight scenes.

edited 6th Aug '13 6:34:55 PM by FOFD

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#3018: Aug 6th 2013 at 6:38:04 PM

Then again, unless it's movies, Toei's animation budget tends to go down the crapper really fast, especially in long runners.

Or if it's a collaboration, like when Dragon Ball's anime director directed one of the Teoi animated shorts in Halo Legends........

Watch Symphogear
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3019: Aug 6th 2013 at 6:49:23 PM

"Wow, it's like fighting a marshmallow!"

.......Hilarious in Hindsight.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#3020: Aug 6th 2013 at 7:15:40 PM

I just watched the first half of Tien vs Yamcha too.

Always liked the animation for Yamcha's Wolf Fang Fist.

edited 6th Aug '13 7:16:22 PM by FOFD

qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#3021: Aug 7th 2013 at 12:02:56 AM

Wasn't the thing with SS 3 the whole he never used it in a living body so he underestimated the strain and power consumption it would use?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#3022: Aug 7th 2013 at 12:03:45 AM

[up] What are you referring to, exactly?

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#3023: Aug 7th 2013 at 8:50:03 AM

[up]The complaint earlier about Goku messing around with Majin Buu and "Akira Toriyama did you even try?"

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#3024: Aug 7th 2013 at 8:59:20 AM

Yeah. SS 3 was always high maintenance. When Goku came back to life, he wasn't able to actually keep it up for very long.

His best chance was the first time he used it, when he fought Fat Buu, but he wasted that.

Considering that using it burned up his time on Earth, we probably should have caught the clues earlier.

SS 2 seems like the best form in the long run. Simply up you base power as much as possible, and use that instead.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#3025: Aug 7th 2013 at 12:05:49 PM

Super Saiyan 3 being so awful, I'm confused as to why it even exists, both from a Doylist and a Watsonian perspective.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 130,800
Top