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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29401: Nov 24th 2015 at 9:54:03 PM

Anti-Nihilists are Nihilists with commitment issues. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#29402: Nov 24th 2015 at 10:03:08 PM

[up] Nihilists are children who see the world and act like it's a toy they want to return to the store.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#29403: Nov 24th 2015 at 10:06:01 PM

I mean, it's perfectly fair to ask for a refund when it's broken.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#29404: Nov 24th 2015 at 10:08:32 PM

Not unless you're an atheist. tongue

But seriously, if I'm wrong, I will film myself eating my hat.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29405: Nov 24th 2015 at 11:23:43 PM

Nihilism doesn't have anything to do with optimism or pessimism. Nihilism is just acknowledging that life literally has no point and that you must take charge of your own life in your own hands. Nihilism is realism.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#29406: Nov 24th 2015 at 11:31:55 PM

I thought that was anti-nihilism? Because most of the nihilism I know of is saying that the world sucks and we shouldn't bother living it or something (all I know is that the one guy people call I nihilist, Nietzsche, was not one).

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#29408: Nov 24th 2015 at 11:37:18 PM

Much like Toriyama himself, we forget what we're doing and just make stuff up as we go along.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29409: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:01:16 AM

Nope. Nihilism is actually really self-empowering. Essentially: everything everyone believes in can be debated and scrutinized and that life, by itself, has no meaning. You're supposed to take charge of your own life and make what you will with it, because you don't want someone else in charge of your life.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29410: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:32:25 AM

No, that's existentialism.

The quick version:

Existentialism: Life is meaningless but we can take control of our lives and give it meaning.

Nihilism: Life is meaningless and so are your attempts at giving it meaning.

Though Nietzsche wrote a great deal on the subject of nihilism, his personal views were firmly existentialist.

edited 25th Nov '15 12:33:31 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Nihlus1 Since: Jul, 2015
#29411: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:32:55 AM

Whoa whoa whoa. Dragon Ball is "optimistic"? I object; it's baldfaced cynical.

Piccolo kidnaps and abuses a child to brainwash him. He repeatedly beats the 4 year old child, several times badly enough to cause serious injuries.

Gohan, the subject of that abuse, develops Stockholm Syndrome and sees the guy who beat him until his eye swelled shut to be more loving than his own mother.

Goku is prepared to sacrifice billions of people for his selfish desires without a second thought. Even if it means threatening to murder the God of Gods, who saved the universe long ago from an evil wizard.

Goku's douchebaggery re:Gero causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people who are not ever revived (the people Gero killed in the city).

Vegeta, a bloodthirsty mercenary who literally committed genocide for a living gets off scot-free because he's buddies with the protagonists, and no one cares enough to bring him to justice (he'll still go to Hell, though).

A superpowered teenager gets drunk and nearly accidentally murders his wife, and she shrugs it off after recovering, seemingly conditioned to accept this.

The galaxy is ravaged by planet-exterminating pirates, with the "authorities" either being too apathetic (higher level gods) or too weak (the Galactic Patrol, lower level gods) do anything about it.

These things aren't hidden. They're not subtext. They are the events of the story that are plainly presented. What makes this series a goofy happy tale? The upbeat music?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29412: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:36:47 AM

Nihilism: giving life meaning isn't important. Your actions shape your life how you want it. In the grand scheme of things, you're still useless and you and all other life never meant anything, but you still lived your life the way you want to.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29413: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:37:58 AM

That's still closer to existentialism; gleaming subjective meaning out of a world with no objective meaning.

But to avoid risk of going too far off-topic I'll stop here and get some damn sleep.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#29414: Nov 25th 2015 at 2:18:17 AM

I skipped the last seven pages, did anything interesting happen while I was gone?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#29415: Nov 25th 2015 at 2:28:25 AM

Krillin told 18 to stay in the kitchen and make him some dinner while he goes off to fight Frieza.

18's reaction is to exclaim how cool Krillin is.

edited 25th Nov '15 2:28:42 AM by MadSkillz

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#29416: Nov 25th 2015 at 2:59:22 AM

These things aren't hidden. They're not subtext. They are the events of the story that are plainly presented. What makes this series a goofy happy tale? The upbeat music?

Events don't make a series cynical or optimistic, what makes it so is writing, tone and characterization. I mean, your post didn't state plain facts, it just wrote events from a cynical perspective. Videl shrugged off the bullet wound because it only takes a few seconds to heal, Vegeta going to hell is the same as bringing him to justice (and the requirement for him to get out is genuine desire to change, rather than punishment), and you only mentioned Gero's destruction because the villains' damage rarely sticks to begin with note .

And when did Goku ever threatened the Elder Kai?

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#29417: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:21:53 AM

Watching the latest episode of Super made me wonder, how did Sorbet know about Goku defeating Majin Buu anyway? King Kai was only broadcasting to Earth... nobody else should've known what was going on. King Kai's been going around threatening different alien races to keep them from attacking Earth?

Even if Sorbet had been around at the time... Earth was destroyed, and Goku and Vegeta teleported to an ancient planet home to gods allegedly stronger than Frieza, so no way would the Frieza Force have gone there or witnessed the battle.

[up](x2) Same.

edited 25th Nov '15 4:35:41 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#29418: Nov 25th 2015 at 5:06:33 AM

Anti Nihilism isn't about optimism for the sake of it. It's about acknowledging the basic tenets behind nihilism but not letting yourself become pessimistic because of them. You can be an antinihilist and still be a pessimist.

And for the life of me I still don't get why their grand plan was a second Android 17, of all things. Not the ultimate creation Cell, not the more powerful model 16, not an image of themselves or since we're using the preposterous built an android in hell plot line in the first place, the more powerful Super 13. We've already established filler is king in this "sequel", might as well open the door to the non serial movies too. If it was because a 17 was still on Earth then wasn't he designed to work in a pair anyway? Why not make something that could use both androids?

And why was this distraction needed? Because Goku, who already knew about how the Android's energy absorption worked apparently forgot about it, couldn't figure it out as quickly a second time, and then proceeded to do the dumbest thing he possibly could once he worked it out again. And why did this distraction lead to Super 17's defeat? Because after powering up on Super Saiyan Four Goku's Super Blast, becoming powerful enough to dominate Super Saiyan Four Goku back down to base, he was then killed from a single punch by said beaten down base Goku. Power level wank? GT's the show that screws up the concept of power levels worse than any other, so far anyway. I'd like to see 18 do something as much as anyone. I'm the one who typed multiple posts detailing how all the characters could be having side adventures around the same time. But I don't think bad writing to get 18 into a situation is any better than bad writing to get 18 out of a situation. Especially when motivated by Japanese patriarchal values.

Super Buu comes out of a hole in space time. Krillen tells wife to take daughter and run, assuring her he'll be fine. Why not trace the Japanese culture tangent back to that? It was essentially the same scenario. Before this all powerful fusion of 17s in GT, regular 17 is still able to handily repel 18's attack and casually defeat her. Their power level difference isn't supposed to be vast, anything other than him fleeing in the way Gero and Cell were sent running before they could reveal their trump cards should have resulted in a drawn out battle that gave the other fights a chance to destroy the other 17.

Buldogue's lawyer
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#29419: Nov 25th 2015 at 6:29:46 AM

[up]Goku & 18 defeating Super 17 is the one thing I liked about that battle. Instead of power levels being king (yet again), they had him be particularly vulnerable to physical attacks while in "absorb ki" mode note .

Sure, there's no good reason as to why 18 would know this (and the circumstances that lead to 17 getting that overpowered to begin with were dumb), but it's an instance where a different tactic trumps a higher power level. Good to see that for a change.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#29420: Nov 25th 2015 at 6:41:25 AM

This just furthers my belief that philosophy is, by and large, bullshit that absolutely nobody understands.

That's my philosophy.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#29421: Nov 25th 2015 at 7:18:13 AM

If I'm nihilistic at all, I'm a Straw Nihilist. If life has no point, what's the point in keeping it around? t's certainly not worth preserving on its OWN merits, that's for sure. Seriously, if you're a nihilist with a sense of self-preservation, that makes you a hypocrite.

That's why I try not to be nihilistic and actively despise anyone who is. Because I don't want to be forced down that path. But you guys sure ain't making it easy.

That's why I was getting so upset over our discussion about the inevitability of death last night. Because this ideology is as disturbing for me to know I have as I'm sure it is for you guys to read and I try to suppress it whenever possible.

edited 25th Nov '15 7:48:51 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29422: Nov 25th 2015 at 7:59:23 AM

Oh my Kami are we seriously debating philosophy in a Dragon Ball Z thread.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#29423: Nov 25th 2015 at 8:08:38 AM

This wouldn't be the first time.

Anyway, I'm thinking about giving the series a rewatch. What order should I go in? Like, when should I switch between Kai and Z?

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#29424: Nov 25th 2015 at 8:09:33 AM

Just watch Kai. The voice acting and translation are world better and it cuts out about half of the filler and padding. I will never understand the hate Kai gets.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29425: Nov 25th 2015 at 8:09:44 AM

[up][up][up]Yup.

edited 25th Nov '15 8:35:27 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

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