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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#2876: Jul 2nd 2013 at 9:38:49 PM

I believe somewhere on this wiki it's stated that he just trains poorly.

Always by himself(as opposed to Goku, who trains with others, or with masters), and he pushes himself too hard and damages his body too badly often. He does get results, but he'd get farther if he wasn't so insistent on training on his own.

I'll have to check, but its either in his character profile on the main Dragon Ball page, the Hard Work Hardly Works page, or the Training from Hell page.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2877: Jul 2nd 2013 at 9:55:07 PM

[up][up] Because Toei dun give a fuck.

[up] This wiki lies. Goku trains alone just as much once he's as strong as Vegeta.

edited 2nd Jul '13 9:56:22 PM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#2878: Jul 2nd 2013 at 11:08:36 PM

Really? In almost every case, we see him being trained by someone, or sparring with someone.

Or is that just anime filler?

Though when he did train on his own, he ended up getting in trouble(the first experience with 100 times gravity). I'm just assuming Goku is doing something right in his training, since he keeps finding ways to get stronger that surpass Vegeta's methods.

edited 2nd Jul '13 11:08:50 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2879: Jul 2nd 2013 at 11:21:13 PM

He trains on the way to Namek alone, he trains on Yardrat alone, then with Gohan and Piccolo and Vegeta surpasses him (while training alone) then with Gohan, then 7 years alone (although Kaio watches him and provides him with weights, he's still doing the training alone) and then for the next 10 years he mostly trains alone, sometimes he spars with Goten.

And I don't get what you mean by running into trouble with the 100x gravity training. That has nothing to do with being alone, he was firing Kamehamehas at himself in high gravity.

The only times Goku surpasses Vegeta through training are after his 100x gravity training and mastering the Super Saiyan state. Vegeta was quick to adopt both of those methods as soon as he learned Goku used them.


That said, sparring is one of the most effective training methods in the series, but it's no good to you if you've got no-one around your level to spar with. Which is probably why Vegeta surpassed Goku while Goku sparred with Piccolo and Gohan.

edited 2nd Jul '13 11:28:25 PM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2880: Jul 2nd 2013 at 11:57:22 PM

Fun fact: Sparring with Yamcha causes you to lose skill.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#2881: Jul 3rd 2013 at 12:04:21 AM

Sparring with Yamcha kills him even if you lower your power level to his meager one.

My President is Funny Valentine.
Randomman5 "The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-" Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
"The Perfect Villain Doesn't Exi-"
#2882: Jul 3rd 2013 at 12:05:35 AM

Even thinking about sparring with Yamcha hurts him.

CaptainKatsura Decoy from    Poland    Since: Jul, 2011
Decoy
#2883: Jul 3rd 2013 at 12:17:18 AM

Poor Yamcha. Writhing in agony now evil grin

My President is Funny Valentine.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2884: Jul 3rd 2013 at 12:26:48 AM

Yamcha sparring with a Saibaman.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TiggersAreGreat Since: Mar, 2011
#2885: Jul 3rd 2013 at 1:05:26 PM

To be fair, Yamcha did bring his Butt Monkey status on himself. He goofed off when he should have been training. He goofed off when he should have asked Bulma/Bloomer to marry him. Have you heard of the expression "You snooze, you lose"? Well, that's exactly what happened to Yamcha. <Sad smile>

By the way, here's what I think about the unholy trinity in Dragon Ball Z:

  1. Frieza/Freezer. Okay, this guy is the best villain the franchise has ever had. He committed genocide on the thuggish Saiyajin, he "depopulates" entire planets to sell them to the highest bidder, and he is an axe-murderer pretending to be a high-class gentleman. Goku's fight with him? Grade A material. [awesome]
  2. Cell. To be honest, I consider this guy average. Why? Because he's essentially imitating Freezer, and imitators never get as much love as the original. There was no build-up towards this guy at all, which was because Toriyama was going to make an old geezer and a fatso the bad guys, then it got changed to a pair of teenaged brats, and it finally focused on...this bug monster. Also, isn't it weird that that just about every robot or cyborg is programmed to be bad but they defy the programming and become good, except for him? What's wrong with him? <Frown>
  3. Majin Buu/Boo. To be blunt, this pink bubblegum monster is an Invincible Villain and Generic Doomsday Villain and nothing more. Also, his transformations completely defy logic. Let's see...Fat Buu => Evil Buu (expelled by Fat Buu) => Super Buu (Evil Buu swallowing Fat Buu) => Buu absorbing Piccolo, Gotenks, and Gohan => Kid Buu (as a result of having Piccolo, Gotenks, Gohan and Fat Buu detached from him). Then it's revealed that before that Kid Buu => Super Buu (from absorbing a particularly strong Kai) => Fat Buu (from absorbing a particularly fat, pure-hearted Kai). Good luck trying to see the logic in those transformations! That, and it was bizarre how the other characters insisted on trying to power up as high as they could, when they should have been focusing on finding a way to prevent Buu from regenerating from one cell.

edited 3rd Jul '13 1:06:16 PM by TiggersAreGreat

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2886: Jul 3rd 2013 at 1:13:25 PM

I actually like Buu the best. He's a Generic Doomsday Villain, yeah, but he did have interesting character compared to Frieza's seen-it-a-million-times world conqueror personality.

Also, they were focusing on powering up because the way to beat Buu was to simply overwhelm him with so much power that it destroys him all at once. tongue

Besides, while it's a Spirit Bomb that finishes Buu off, Goku admits he probably could have destroyed Buu while at full power, and I certainly don't think Mystic Gohan or Super Vegito were bluffing about being strong enough to destroy Super Buu, even if neither of them went through with it. Really, the thing that kept Buu alive so long was not his regeneration, but everybody else's stupidity or in Vegito's case alternate plan.

edited 3rd Jul '13 1:14:09 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2887: Jul 3rd 2013 at 5:22:39 PM

Freeza was just a godawful character in every way, and the fight against him was completely unneccessary and drawn out, due to him simply being able to transform at a whim (and after running out of transformations, simply powering up, making those transformations fucking pointless if he can control his battle power).

Cell got worse the more he transformed, Imperfect Cell was fucking awesome, Semi-Perfect Cell was decent (he didn't get to shine and was kind of a bitch but he was cunning at least) and Perfect Cell was ridiculously stupid. Seriously, who the fuck is dumb enough to fall for a trick they pulled just 10 days earlier. Actually, not even then. By giving them 10 days to begin with he's falling for the same trick he pulled on Vegeta in the same day. And what's worse, no-one even has to try and suggest it, he willingly tricks himself, just gleefully diving head first into the instrument of his own demise.

Boo was awesome. He helped prevent the arc from losing it's comedy elements that were absent from the Freeza and Cell arcs, he was something completely different, and despite his childlike innocence he was a huge threat.

Also, you're mistaken about his transformations. Kid Boo never became Super Boo, he became "Buff Boo" after absorbing the South Kaioshin, which was a different form to Super Boo. Then he became Fat Boo by absorbing the Dai Kaioshin. Then he spat out all of his evil, which became a new, separate entity, and absorbed Fat Boo to become Super Boo. Fat Boo had the Kaioshin inside him, so he represented the outside influence on Boo. When Fat Boo was removed, so was that influence, and so Super Boo turned back into Kid Boo.

And Super Boo was super crafty, like Cell or King Piccolo. Immediately upon coming to be, he already sensed Gohan's increasing power and saw it as a threat, then deduced a plan to overcome him. Genius. And the way he made Piccolo's plan backfire was absolutely glorious.

edited 3rd Jul '13 5:24:03 PM by Saiga

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#2888: Jul 3rd 2013 at 5:41:08 PM

I always irrationally hated Semi-Perfect Cell the most. Like, shit man, shut the fuck up, you ugly shit, goddamnit christ.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2889: Jul 3rd 2013 at 5:42:23 PM

As good a reason to hate someone as any.

kay4today Princess Ymir's knightess from Austria Since: Jan, 2011
Princess Ymir's knightess
#2890: Jul 3rd 2013 at 5:44:53 PM

It probably doesn't help that at least Perfect Cell was strong (though dumb as fuck as you pointed out) and Imperfect Cell cunning and creepy.

Semi Perfect Cell was just 50 % getting his ass kicked, 50 % HURR DURR LIIIIIISTEN.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2891: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:12:36 PM

Yeah, he didn't get his chance to show his power. He tossed 16 away easily, who was previously tied with him, but that's it. Imperfect Cell's absorption of humans looked more impressive because he goes from being toyed with Piccolo to making Piccolo shit himself, then beating up Piccolo and 17 at the same time.

Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2892: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:17:30 PM

(and after running out of transformations, simply powering up, making those transformations fucking pointless if he can control his battle power).

Wasn't Frieza's final form his true "original" form?

I used to dislike Frieza in general and thought he was an overrated villan, but after watching Kai's more faithful translation, I've warmed up to him and can now see why he's so well-liked. Chris Ayres' godly performances helped.

Cell is the opposite. I used to think he was one of the baddest dudes in anime, but now I just find him to be very generic and boring.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2893: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:20:31 PM

Yeah, his final form is his true form. He created the transformations to suppress his power... but then reveals that he can freely control his battle power anyway (and not just in his final form, he does it in his second form as well) which makes the transformations unneeded and just a way of padding out the battle.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#2894: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:30:34 PM

[up]

Or alternately(cause I admit, I never thought of that), he learned to control his battle power since his true power was too much for his body to handle, but that still wasn't quite enough to get it under control(or was still too tiring) so he learned to change his form as well as a further control method.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2895: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:34:03 PM

Except the part about him having stamina problems with his full power is anime only. In fact, Vegeta even mentions conserving energy among reasons to have transformations and Freeza says his reason is different.

Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2896: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:45:20 PM

So the anime actually improved on something for once.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2897: Jul 3rd 2013 at 6:52:43 PM

No, not really. Because that still only applies for his 100% power, not his lower percentages. Even if using 100% did exhaust him, he could have just not been at 100% all the time.

edited 3rd Jul '13 6:53:09 PM by Saiga

Robotnik Since: Aug, 2011
#2898: Jul 3rd 2013 at 7:26:49 PM

Boo was awesome. He helped prevent the arc from losing it's comedy elements that were absent from the Freeza and Cell arcs, he was something completely different, and despite his childlike innocence he was a huge threat.

Good to see someone else likes Boo. One of my favorite moments in the series is when he zooms straight to Kami's Lookout the first chance he gets in his super form and everyone has an "OH FUCK ME, HE'S HERE ALREADY?" reaction. You really got the sense that for the first time in what felt like forever, everyone was actually on the run from something. The threat had been escalated about as far as it possibly could be, but in this case I think it worked.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#2899: Jul 3rd 2013 at 8:54:02 PM

[up]

Yeah. That was cool. They'd always had time to prepare before, and Buu just went and fucked that up.

Also, he was plain ass silly. I laughed at a lot of things Buu did.

Cell was 100% serious, and Frieza only had that one moment where Goku bit his tail. Buu was constantly hilarious even as he was pretty horrifying.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2900: Jul 3rd 2013 at 9:09:33 PM

Cell wasn't all that serious. Maybe in his first two forms since he was hellbent on becoming perfect, but once he gets his perfection he does stupidity like breaking into a news studio, hosting the Cell Games, waiting 10 days for everyone to train, taking beans without hesitation, ect.

I like how Buu just hunts everyone down with no wait. What little sense of showmanship he gets from absorbing Gotenks is still used to try and murder people, just more fancily.

Also, Super Buu's surprising intellect even before absorbing Piccolo is one thing that makes me like the character. It's just so unexpected for the big bubblegum monster with an IQ comparable to a jellyfish to suddenly be devising crafty plans and exploiting emotional weaknesses too. Absorbing Piccolo and becoming much more eloquent just cemented it.

edited 3rd Jul '13 9:10:03 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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