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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#28701: Nov 18th 2015 at 3:18:00 PM

I know that; I meant did he mean for that to happen every time or was it just a habit he formed without thinking about it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28702: Nov 18th 2015 at 3:19:21 PM

I don't think he ever cared much about Yamcha, to be honest.

Given Toriyama's tendency not to plan ahead much, I suspect the only reason Yamcha even stuck around at all is because he and Bulma hooked up at the end of the initial arc. He was basically just in the story to be Bulma's shallow love interest.

edited 18th Nov '15 3:20:22 PM by TobiasDrake

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IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#28703: Nov 18th 2015 at 3:27:00 PM

Son of Sharknado, I already talked about Darkstalkers didn't I?

Though with the advent of Battle Of Gods and Dragon Ball Super the playable Darkstalkers cast might end up falling behind Dragon Ball. At this point it seems Jedah Doma would be the only one who could maybe stand up to Beerus(I'd really be more comfortable putting him around Super Buu maybe Vegito). Maybe complete Morrigan too, though we have yet to see complete Morrigan for real thanks to Capcom Sequel Stagnation. Still, I'd be comfortable putting Pyron and the A ranked Makai nobles somewhere between weakest form Namek saga Freeza(who is still freaking strong) and Perfect Cell.

Admittedly that's the only series I can think of, unless you buy into the Dragon Ball - Saint Seiya rivalry.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#28704: Nov 18th 2015 at 3:29:55 PM

Eh, Super Saiyan Blue Goku could probably match up to Pegasus God Cloth Seiya by this point.

They'd still get utterly wrecked by Hades, though the two of them using the Fusion Dance could probably match even him.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#28705: Nov 18th 2015 at 4:08:00 PM

Well, back to strictly Dragon Ball for a second, the fight with Kid Buu clearly demonstrated that Fat Buu was weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Goku but stronger than Vegeta, based on all three's performances. Goku fought evenly with him but couldn't get the small Buu to stand still long enough to gather enough power to outright destroy him, Fat Buu got wrecked but managed to at least fight back for a little while, Vegeta was simply toyed with throughout, necessitating the Fat Buu act as the superior time staler instead.

But Buu saga rankings went Vegeta-Fat Buu-Goku-Gotenks-Gohan in escalating order. It is possible to be stronger than Vegeta but weaker than Goku, though Vegeta jumping ahead four spaces sans any foreshadowing against what was previously established about him just to end up second to Goku again lends credence to the idea that being stronger than Vegeta but weaker than Goku won't last very long for anyone.

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BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#28706: Nov 18th 2015 at 4:09:55 PM

To be fair, that could be because Fat Buu is Nigh-Invulnerable rather than simply stronger than Vegeta.

edited 18th Nov '15 4:11:13 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#28707: Nov 18th 2015 at 4:24:49 PM

Well, maybe. I have a hard time buying Vegeta without Babadi magic being stronger than the Fat Buu though.

Anyway, according the Dragon Ball Wiki, the information about Majin Buu being around since time immemorial and becoming the destructive little imp we know and love to loath by absorbing the evils of humanity before being summoned by Bibidi to destroy the universe came from a 2014 edition of Shonen Jump...I'm sorry, I thought the manga had ended in 1995! My mistake.

edited 18th Nov '15 4:25:30 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#28708: Nov 18th 2015 at 4:33:41 PM

The manga has had more than one run. Relatively recently, it did a full color run where we learned the names of Androids 17 and 18 if memory serves.

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28709: Nov 18th 2015 at 4:39:36 PM

It's debatable whether SS 3 Goku could take Majin Buu on. Dead SS 3 Goku, yes. Alive SS 3 Goku, no. SS 3 wastes too much energy and could lose SS 3 before he could finish off Buu.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#28710: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:40:35 PM

So Super Boo's genocide attack really isn't all that impressive when one remembers that Majin Boo had already destroyed over 2/3rds of the Earth well before that point.

Also, Boo heals some blind kid, turns some guy into milk, and then feeds the milk to the blind kid. That sounds like something TFS would do in a game.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28711: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:41:34 PM

Sounds like something out of a bad horror movie, minus the part about the guy turning into milk.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#28712: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:42:15 PM

It's actually not debatable. Goku says he could do it, and he knows better than we do, so we have to assume he is right.

We also know exactly why he couldn't do it in the Supreme Planet, because he underestimated the drain on his stamina. Had he fought to kill Buu right from the start, he most likely would have done exactly that.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#28713: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:29:08 PM

I kind of want to see that ex-blind kid again.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#28714: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:31:14 PM

The cannibal ex-blind kid.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
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#28715: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:32:29 PM

In the anime version apparently, in the manga Goku fought to kill Kid Buu from the start but small Buu wouldn't give him enough time draw upon the energy necessary to finish him off for good, leading to a stalemate Kid Buu was bound to win due to his superior stamina. So Vegeta stepped in to be a distraction but by then it was too late as simply being super saiyan 3 so long had already drained Goku's stamina to the point he couldn't draw on the necessary energy.

The anime likely changed that because it's stalling nature probably would have lead to fridge logic. You know, I didn't know TOEI drug out Dragon Ball the way it did because of the nature of Japanese broadcast industry itself. I don't know if I'm ready to necessarily forgive them for SUPER and definitely not for GT, but it's made me think of the original manga's adaption in a new way. I can kinda of sort of see why they're taking their time with Super now, trying to give Toriyama as much time to come up with as much material as possible perhaps?

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28716: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:36:28 PM

@IANCE At that point, Goku didn't know about Buu's regeneration though. And I was talking about living Goku. Add in the fact that he didn't know how much harder SS 3 was to maintain in his living body too.

edited 18th Nov '15 7:37:44 PM by MadSkillz

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28717: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:59:04 PM

Yeah. I'm actually convinced that if Goku had tried to win the fight right then and there, he'd have burned up all his time before he got a chance.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28718: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:33:41 PM

Let me just step right in; Yamcha's treatment in-universe is not the same as his treatment by the fanbase.

When Yamcha was first introduced, he was clearly supposed to be taken even a bit more seriously than Goku: here was an opponent who, despite being weaker than Goku, was a far more skilled fighter and a crafty adversary. From Yamcha almost beating Goku in a 1-v-1 before Bulma woke up and triggered his gynophobia, to him and Goku being established as the two fighters when Bulma was turned into a carrot by Boss Rabbit, to him having prior knowledge of all the martial arts masters and techniques they come across.

He may have lost in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai to Jackie Chun, but his strength and potential was acknowledged and he stayed an active participant of the tournament by trying to unmask Jackie as Roshi. His appearence against Baba's fighters makes it clear that training with Roshi has already helped him and he was winning against Invisible Man just by listening for him until Baba started singing and his defeat against Mummy is portayed as a hard-fought loss against a superior enemy.

Yes he did lose to Tenshinhan in the 22nd but he put up a hell of a fight and him using a Kamehameha is treated as an impressive showing of Yamcha going above and beyond what his training was supposed to be. Similarly, Tenshinhan breaking his leg is portrayed as horrifying and cruel. Krillin claiming that he and Yamcha were equals cements Tenshinhan's threat while also establishing that Krillin would've fared no better. Yamcha is even cool with Tenshinhan after the tournament.

Yamcha fighting Kami in the 23rd is just portayed as bad luck and, even so, Yamcha still fights his hardest with Kami even acknowledging his talent when he nails him with the Spirit Ball.

Yamcha fights the Saibaman in Krillin's place to be a friend and easily crushes it. Yamcha's death from explosion is portayed as shocking, sudden, and tragic.

Yamcha losing to Dr. Gero is similarly portayed as unnecessarily gruesome and shows the Android's ruthlessness.

Yes, Yamcha loses almost every fight he's in, but his losses are never portayed by the narrative as unimportant or a joke and, with the exception of Dr. Gero, he always fights his hardest and makes his opponent try. To the fan-base, Yamcha is a running gag of loserdom, in-universe, Yamcha is a cool, smart, fighter who just gets unlucky with his match-ups.

edited 18th Nov '15 10:28:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
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#28719: Nov 18th 2015 at 10:17:01 PM

That's some universal manipulation if he has that much bad luck, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28720: Nov 18th 2015 at 10:37:41 PM

"Yamcha is a cool, smart, fighter who just gets unlucky with his match-ups."

Hahahahahaha

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28721: Nov 18th 2015 at 10:51:49 PM

Seriously. Never is Yamcha's Butt-Monkey status the fanbase has imposed on him ever referenced in the manga. Canon Yamcha is a tactical fighter and a nice guy who is just unlucky. In canon, the only people to EVER make light of Yamcha are villains like Tenshinhan and Vegeta (at the time) and the crowd during the first half of his fight with Shen which is negated when Shen's true power is revealed and Kami respected Yamcha the whole fight.

edited 18th Nov '15 10:58:24 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28722: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:16:03 PM

Nice guy?

Future Trunks: "Yamcha was... um, not always faithful. She got fed

up and broke up with him for good. Then she saw my father, sitting all

alone, and it just... happened."

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28723: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:30:10 PM

Yes, Yamcha is a nice guy. Him cheating would be incredibly out-of-character: the man had gynophobia. Even after he got a fan club in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, he wasn't happy or flirty, just uncomfortable. Any time he ever even interacted with someone of the opposite sex Bulma would accuse him of cheating. I think what's much more likely is that Bulma mistakenly thought Yamcha was cheating on her when he wasn't and took that excuse to get with Vegeta and break up.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28724: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:34:02 PM

Speaking of Yamcha, he was dumped by Bulma, wasn’t he?

That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; [Yamcha]‘s a cheater.” (laughs)

I almost feel bad for quoting this to Yamcha's one fan.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28725: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:49:43 PM

Even if Yamcha had cheated, I wouldn't blame him: he was in a toxic and abusive relationship and it's good for him that he got out.


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