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Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#28626: Nov 17th 2015 at 9:18:02 PM

so that frog was ginyu right? Is he going to posess someone in the revival of f arc?

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28627: Nov 17th 2015 at 9:18:53 PM

Also, characters like Oolong and Roshi actually had a purpose. Somewhat.

But those are two awful characters. Oolong is a kidnapper and a pedophile and Roshi is a molester.

Also there are parts of Z that I like more and parts of pre-Z that I like more. They're both equal to me.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28628: Nov 17th 2015 at 9:22:41 PM

Oolong only had a purpose in the first arc, 90% of which was being gross.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#28629: Nov 17th 2015 at 9:23:22 PM

Oolong no, but I will agree Roshi did have some substance as a character beyond the perverted old man archetype.

Except, Roshi is an Obsolete Mentor by the time of Z, so him being reduced to comic relief made sense.

Only thing I would give Dragon Ball over Z is that yea, there was more a focus on martial arts and the animation was so much more fluid than most parts of Z.

edited 17th Nov '15 9:23:42 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#28630: Nov 17th 2015 at 9:50:41 PM

Calling Oolong a pedophile doesn't seem quite right given that he's only nine himself. He's just, you know, a rapist. That's totally okay right? Ha ha look at him try to rape Bulma.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28631: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:01:27 PM

I refuse to make jokes about Rapist Oolong.

It's sickening. I wish it was never a thing. The hero who first saved the world (by wishing for fucking panties) is a rapist. Boo!

Roshi did in fact used to be more than just a perverted old man. From that first time I saw him bust out his full power Kamehameha (you gotta admit, that was pretty awesome), I kinda like those moments for him. He's also among the small list of warriors who can say they beat Goku fair and square in a one on one fight.

I want to remember that Roshi, rather than the man he became, who's defined by his perversion.

One Strip! One Strip!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28632: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:35:21 PM

[up] The man he became? Roshi's always been a pervert. His introductory scene isn't him Kamehamehaing that fire at Ox King's place but giving the Nimbus to Goku and asking a 16 year old to let him look at her panties for a reward.

@Arha Whoa, he's 9?

edited 17th Nov '15 10:35:39 PM by MadSkillz

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#28633: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:44:04 PM

There's a fine line between pervy-but-harmless old man and creepy molester, and unfortunately they tend to make Roshi cross into the latter.

Abridged version does a good job of keeping him entertaining without being creepy. He just cracks lewd jokes now and then rather than molest underage kids.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28634: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:46:21 PM

Remember that time Roshi molested Krillin's girlfriend or that time Roshi molested Krillin's wife in front of Krillin's daughter.

Why hasn't Krillin killed him yet?

edited 17th Nov '15 10:59:56 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#28635: Nov 17th 2015 at 11:03:51 PM

okay but in other news:

There's something adorable about Marron and Goten playing ball together. Awww.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28636: Nov 17th 2015 at 11:45:52 PM

Remember how none of those instances of him actually touching someone are in the manga? Manga Roshi's just a pervy old man who would never go that far.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#28637: Nov 18th 2015 at 12:20:07 AM

Still asked a 16-year-old to flash her panties though.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#28638: Nov 18th 2015 at 1:27:05 AM

Which, IINM, is federally legal in Japan, and because of his advanced age, I think most people there wouldn't take it anywhere near as seriously as we do.

So, basically, Japan.

Also, to the people who complain about people here 'not liking the series' because we bring up its bad points as well: Liking something is not blindly loving everything and refusing to accept flaws, people. If we were unwilling to acknowledge Dragon Ball's flaws, we'd be contemptible fanboys.

And to that guy who says I kept watching a series I held with nothing but hate: You're simply wrong. Again, liking something doesn't mean I have to be blind to its flaws.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#28639: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:04:12 AM

Honestly, in about half of the US, it wouldn't be a crime either.

[up] True but this thread seems to little else but complain about this aspect or that aspect and shit on Toriyama. It's occasionally not but it usually is.

edited 18th Nov '15 5:05:40 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#28640: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:09:44 AM

Being legal doesn't make something good or right.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28641: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:11:43 AM

[up]x5 Never go that far? Hahahahha oh man, what about touching Ranfan's ass when she's unconscious? That's in the manga.

[up] Absolutely.

I know, objectively speaking, it's the better part of the series

No, it's really not. It's ridiculous to try and say quality is objective.

As for the arguments that pre-Z is better...

Probably because they use a lot more martial arts

I don't really see how this is important. Even when they used martial arts, a lot of it was shit Toriyama made up on the fly. It doesn't have any deeper significance than any other random kick or laser they throw out later.

battles can be won with strategy and clever thinking

Has nothing to do with pre-Z material. Pre-Z is littered with pure contests of strength, Z has plenty of examples of strategy and clever thinking.

Power Levels don't exist

Zel already pointed out, not true. The numerical rankings didn't exist, but the numerical rankings also had no impact on how battles actually played out. Fixed Relative Strength and Character Tiers were always in effect.

fights aren't won by getting a new transformation

There's no real reason this has to be a bad thing, unless it's overdone. And to be honest Z doesn't do much of "gain new transformation, win". Even pre-Z has Goku immediately defeat enemies after a power-up - the difference being that he just doesn't change form, which isn't very relevant.

Also, characters like Oolong and Roshi actually had a purpose. Somewhat

  • 100 points for Z then. Sexual predators can go languish in obscurity

edited 18th Nov '15 5:11:59 AM by Saiga

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#28642: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:15:05 AM

"Dragon Ball" is better than "Z" because the padding in "Z" got ridiculous when they went to planet Namek.

Comparing anything other than the way the two halves of the manga were adapted by TOEI is largely pointless because "Z" only exists in the anime, and was only coined because of a misunderstanding.

Anyway, for someone who doesn't really care for Gohan, I will say my favorite beat down of the series was Elder Kai powered Gohan's beat down of Super Buu. It followed the Gotenks stuff really well.

Buldogue's lawyer
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#28643: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:21:35 AM

So take this with an extreme grain of salt, but apparently beerus` team is:

Goku, Vegeta (hurrrrr), Piccolo, Mr. Boo, and some mystery fighter who Beerus says he's the strongest person he knows. And its not Whis apparently.

I only got this from a Twitter post on my feed who said he read spoilers.

edited 18th Nov '15 7:23:36 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#28644: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:41:31 AM

[up][up]Shame it had to be that way, yeah, but that was the fault of both Toriyama slowing down — which, as an author, he has every right to do — and, primarily, Japanese broadcast law. There was nothing else that Toei could do or else the show would get cancelled prematurely.

I hope those lawmakers are happy, scarring so many series' reputations like that.

edited 18th Nov '15 7:50:33 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#28645: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:50:21 AM

There's something adorable about Marron and Goten playing ball together. Awww.

Goten and Marron are my new OTP.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#28646: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:53:08 AM

[up][up][up]

I want to know more about Champa's team.

Except, Roshi is an Obsolete Mentor by the time of Z, so him being reduced to comic relief made sense.

I find it amusing that Roshi seems to be in charge of Power Level analysis in the DBS-era, or at least telling people what to do.

In BOG, he's the one who tells all the weaker fighters to rush Beerus, but doesn't do so himself. He then claims that Vegeta has become stronger than Goku, even though Roshi shouldn't have any damn idea how strong Goku is in relation to Vegeta, nor be able to assert that Vegeta's surpassed him. And none of them actually saw Beerus punk Goku, so I don't know why Roshi rushed to that conclusion, no one knew what'd happened to Goku or why Beerus was there - that's why the party went along as well as it did, he was just a guest.

Then in ROF, he's there on the battlefield, and he's the first person to notice Frieza's new power and tell the weaker fighters they need to scram.

edited 18th Nov '15 7:59:01 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28647: Nov 18th 2015 at 8:03:38 AM

I was thinking the same thing. What development did Vegeta and Bulma get? He developed in that he actually came to care for her and the family they eventually had together but we didn't actually see any of it happening, it just happened during a timeskip.

Pretty much this. All of Vegeta's family development came from Trunks. We're first introduced to the Vegeta/Bulma pairing by the existence of Future Trunks, whose heritage is a shocking reveal. Then, after the three year timeskip, it just happens but Vegeta's a bad dad.

Vegeta then spends the duration of the Cell arc learning to appreciate his relationship with Trunks and growing as a person, before reaching the climax of his Character Arc when Cell kills Trunks. Grief makes him a better person and he settles in as Bulma's mate and Trunks's father through the next timeskip.

So while there was development of Vegeta's role in his relationship with Bulma, it all happened between Vegeta and his son. Bulma's involvement was basically an afterthought.

Actually, I have a new one, was anyone ever bothered by how Gohan going all "hidden potential mode" usually didn't amount to anything?

That's usually a point I bring up when people are talking about how Gohan was the main character from Raditz onward because of his Hidden Potential. His Hidden Potential was an ongoing subplot but it never really accomplished anything between Raditz and Cell. Until his training with Goku in the RoSaT, it was just a cool thing he could briefly pull out of his ass while he and Krillin were getting their faces beat in, no more a major plotline than Krillin's Kienzan or Goku's Genki-Dama. It was an attack, not a storyline.

You know what would be a cool side story episode? Krillin is called to help a town with a werewolf but the werewolf actually manages to, not only put up a fight, but overpower him. Krillin wins through skill and tactics and the werewolf is revealed to be Yamcha, who was bitten in his sleep. Yamcha now has a werewolf transformation.

There isn't a moon to transform him anymore.

He once beat a Wolf man with his Wolf Fang Fist in the prelims in I recall.

Still, Krillin stomps completely. Even Werewolf Yamcha is weaker.

You're thinking of Man-Wolf, who transforms into a Man during the full moon. He wasn't beaten in the prelims, he made it into the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai as a competitor. He faced Kame-sennin Jackie Chun seeking vengeance for the destruction of the moon, which permanently trapped him in his wolf form, and was defeated when Chun hypnotized him into thinking Krillin's bald head was the full moon - a feat that somehow permanently transformed him human.

It's the last big hurrah of strategy in battles...and it takes place at the start of the series.

No, that would be the tricky, complicated body-jumping battle with Captain Ginyu, ultimately won by a well-placed frog.

Strategy only officially went out the window with Frieza, when a similar dogpile to what defeated Vegeta took place and every gun in Chekhov's Armory proved useless in the face of his overwhelming might. Frieza was the sledgehammer that broke the concept of tactics.

The Buu arc tried to revive tactical fighting but it also introduced Ultimate Gohan and Vegito, two concepts so much more powerful than any of the tactics employed in the end as to make those tactics look unnecessary by comparison.

edited 18th Nov '15 8:04:28 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28648: Nov 18th 2015 at 8:17:53 AM

@ those spoilers: PICCOLO PICCOLO PICCOLO PICCOLO PICCOLOOOOOOOO! And the mystery fighter is obviously Genkai.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#28649: Nov 18th 2015 at 8:20:54 AM

The funny part is that Vegeta admits Gohan has more potential than him or Goku, but the latter says he just studies now.

You almost get the feeling he's doing this on purpose.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#28650: Nov 18th 2015 at 8:29:05 AM

[up][up]Resisting the urge to make the Cena joke.


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