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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#27751: Nov 10th 2015 at 10:42:42 AM

WAHN PAWNCH!

Sorry, I wanted to.

[up](x5) Yeah, but... is it really much better? Sasuke dealt with actual trauma and while his crimes were excused, so were Vegeta's. I guess you could argue that Vegeta paid the ultimate price - twice - for living the life of an intergalactic thug, while Sasuke didn't, but still.

Both characters got their asses handed to them quite a bit. Sasuke's treatment by his former friends/allies isn't that far from how Gohan/Goku/Bulma respond to Vegeta.

edited 10th Nov '15 10:45:45 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27752: Nov 10th 2015 at 10:43:11 AM

Well, Tobias convinced me somewhat, but I'm still more convinced that these kind of things being in character for Vegeta is a coincidence rather than a deliberate thing on Toriyama's part.

Once again, I acknowledge that I may be selling him short, but for a guy who tosses characters under the bus once he believes they've served their narrative purpose, it's hard to believe he planned that out for Vegeta.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#27753: Nov 10th 2015 at 10:43:52 AM

I actually think it's likely that the reason Vegeta turned around and became accustomed to Earth so comparatively fast is because he had no ties to Planet Vegeta.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27754: Nov 10th 2015 at 10:44:21 AM

[up]

I like that actually.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#27755: Nov 10th 2015 at 10:58:14 AM

It makes sense.

Getting out from under Frieza's thumb was Vegeta's driving motivation. He wanted immortality so that he could be the most awesome badass in the universe forever and not have to fear that Frieza's going to step in and murder him with his left thumb. His entire rebellion was dedicated not to avenging his race, but to surpassing Frieza.

Then Goku defeated Frieza and that was that. Everyone assumed Frieza died in space - well, until Frieza arrived on the planet, but he was killed shortly after. This is a very complicated time for Vegeta. He never really had any plans for what he would do once Frieza was no longer a guillotine blade hanging over his head other than "Be the most awesome guy in the universe forever." He's free of Frieza's control, but he never actually surpassed Frieza. Worse, Goku did. Vegeta's still not the biggest, most awesome guy in the universe. Goku is.

So Goku became Vegeta's new Frieza. Lacking anything else to do with his life, Goku became his new objective to overcome. The new target to hit, the new foe to surpass, the new life goal.

The funny thing is, he kind of imitates the person he's trying to beat. When he was against Frieza, he was all, "Imma blow up this Namekian village too. Frieza doesn't have a monopoly on genocide! I can slaughter Namekians too!" and when he was on Earth, he was all, "Imma start a family with humans and produce half-Saiyan sons too. Kakarot doesn't have a monopoly on half-breed families!"

edited 10th Nov '15 11:00:42 AM by TobiasDrake

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#27756: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:05:14 AM

I wonder if Vegeta would have just wandered around the earth if he didn't hijack Bulma's spaceship.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27757: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:17:40 AM

The problem with Sasuke is that he's everything Vegeta is but is played straight as a tragic hero, which has the equal and opposite reaction of actually making him less sympathetic.

Him and the rest of the Uchiha really. It's almost eerie how much the Uchiha really just feel like a whitewashed Saiyan race.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#27758: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:20:30 AM

Whitewashed aliens?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#27759: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:23:25 AM

Whitewashed clan, but close enough.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27760: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:27:16 AM

Basically every wrongdoing Uchiha in Naruto is a Karma Houdini, which is a far cry from how the Saiyans were depicted.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#27761: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:28:02 AM

Vegeta is a good character because the narrative knows he's a douchebag and uses this fact to its advantage for everything from fight scene tension to family drama to comedy. And I think this is what Sasuke and other sub-par imitators don't get: they want to have both a Vegeta and a character you can root for and empathize with, failing to understand that those two things together result in a character that's just a chore to watch/read about.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27763: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:34:53 AM

Sasuke is less a character, and more a potent mix of "rival" tropes and Japanese values. It's very easy for him to be popular with the right people.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#27764: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:40:51 AM

But then he's not a chore to read about for many readers. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't like him either, but acting like he's an objective failure as a character is simply wrong. He's a very popular character from a very popular series, meaning people do find him entertaining or sympathetic.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#27765: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:43:08 AM

Something can be popular without actually being good.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27766: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:47:31 AM

That's might be due to his part one incarnation, who was arguably more sympathetic (even if he was still kinda a douche).

You know, when he was actually slowly but surely moving away from revenge, before his jackass brother returned and screwed all that up.

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27767: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:49:30 AM

And then said brother was retconned into being Good All Along.

Sorry for being off-topic but the point here is there's a good way to use a character like Vegeta, and Sasuke wasn't one of them.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#27768: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:52:08 AM

If it's not a good way to use him why did Naruto make all the money? All of it.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27769: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:56:37 AM

...you know that's a good point. I assumed there are other things in Naruto to like that aren't Uchiha related, but by the end of the manga everything relevant or likable was Uchiha related.

So, I guess the real answer here is Sasuke and the Uchiha were just written in a way that cause a Broken Base.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#27770: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:57:27 AM

I still don't see much of a difference between Vegeta and Sasuke's treatment, given their current statuses, but okay.

edited 10th Nov '15 12:01:13 PM by Soble

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27771: Nov 10th 2015 at 11:59:00 AM

Hey!

How 'bout that DBZ eh?

Those power levels sure are bullshit!

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27772: Nov 10th 2015 at 12:00:14 PM

Last word, I only said "wrongdoing Uchiha", so mentioning Shisui isn't relevant.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#27773: Nov 10th 2015 at 12:02:04 PM

It's mostly off-topic anyway so I'll drop it.

I only cared about the difference, or lack thereof, between Sasuke and Vegeta. I mean, yeah, I like Vegeta more than Sasuke, but I'm not convinced they're treated all that differently.

edited 10th Nov '15 12:03:52 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#27774: Nov 10th 2015 at 12:03:55 PM

I don't even watch Naruto...

Anyways, Vegeta...he sure is the hype, isn't he?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27775: Nov 10th 2015 at 12:08:44 PM

...I'm now imagining what a Super Saiyan God with the Rinne-Sharingan would be capable of doing.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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