Saing the saiyans were by and large genocidal assholes isn't the same thing as saying they deserved being wiped out by Frieza. It's just acknowledging things as they were presented in the story.
Not to say that unnoun wasn't making an interesting point but still.
edited 9th Nov '15 6:46:30 PM by LSBK
That's exactly my point, though!
I mean, ignoring the part where I reject the premise that canon exists I'm simply pointing out that there are unknowns here. I haven't denied anything you said but the fact remains that all of the evidence we have comes from a potentially very narrow window of time.
Like, we don't know for sure how or when the Saiyans came into contact with Frieza in the first place. We don't know what the original arrangement was like, or how they entered into it, how long it lasted before Frieza blew it up.
We don't see enough Saiyans to know what they all thought about it or whether they all participated.
Stop assuming that we are meant to assume that a set of circumstances we're shown was meant to have been in effect for all of time.
The thing about things we don't know in fiction is that I can make up whatever the hell I want to fill that gap until told otherwise.
And sometimes afterwards.
edited 9th Nov '15 6:50:24 PM by unnoun
I mean, Gine and Tarble are Saiyans who weren't very genocidal because of their kind hearts and gentle personalities.
No brain damage in either of them as near as I can tell.
I mean, maybe brain damage, I dunno. Can't say. No evidence.
Regardless.
I mean, quite frankly Gine and Tarble are weird because they seemingly don't like to fight at all.
Every society and culture has a wide variety of voices and opinions about a lot of things.
Painting with too broad a brush strikes me as unwise at best.
Yes, I know that Gine and Tarble are ostracized by Saiyan society, but the thing about being ostracized is that it means that the individual in question is considered a threat to that society's well-being. To the status quo in that society. They challenge the default assumptions. For better or for worse.
In order to change a culture you need the outliers and the radicals and the people who are weird or unusual or different. Everyone else sorta keeps things the same.
It's not impossible to imagine the peace-loving Saiyans changing the minds of the rest.
And then Frieza blows them up because lazy monkeys not doing their jobs. Or they starve because they can't afford to import food anymore.
It's not impossible to imagine the Saiyans joining up with Frieza because they've been told that they would fight strong fighters across the universe. Either those handful of strong fighters are worth it for the weaklings not worth the effort, or the Saiyans in question just try to enjoy themselves and their work anyway. And over time and cultural programming and fear they adapt.
Like, I didn't say that the Saiyans didn't enjoy their jobs even when they killed weaklings. It's just. I can't imagine that being truly satisfying given what we know Saiyans look for in a good fight. I can't imagine many Saiyans being that excited or enthusiastic about it. I don't think they'd consider it the best part of the job.
Like, the difference between a bag of potato chips vs. a steak.
edited 9th Nov '15 7:11:33 PM by unnoun
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Except canon does exist, just because you don't believe in it doesn't make it go away nor does it make people believe you. Like, everything you said is irrelevant because its not important to the narrative the series was telling. The saiyans were barbarians, frieza feared and killed them, the end.
I don't mind speculating and all, but at this point you're forcing your headcanons on to people who don't care :V
Hmmm....yea, I can agree Super Saiyan Blue didn't have much narrative purpose...probably because the lack of buildup to it or having any pay off.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I don't mind speculating and all, but at this point you're forcing your headcanons on to people who don't care :V
I mean, canon isn't something I can scientifically measure or observe like gravity or the circumference of the Earth or the laws of thermodynamics or the size of a bacteria.
Like most gods, it only exists for me if I decide to allow it to. And I am and have always been a heretic.
And I fail to see how the narrative the series is telling is the most important thing when we're discussing speculation and possibilities.
Also, I haven't even said any of my "headcanons" this entire time. I was just bringing up a bunch of different sometimes contradictory perspectives and possibilities, based on things and details mentioned in Dragon Ball media that actually exist, like the anime and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans.
Like the Saiyans being oppressed by the Tuffles isn't even my headcanon. It's Vegeta's.
I'm not forcing my headcanons on anyone, but I refuse not to share things or ideas I think are interesting without a reason just because you don't care.
edited 9th Nov '15 7:28:36 PM by unnoun
Super Saiyan Blue exists to sell more toys (and apparently DBH cards) and I can't fault it because giving it to both Goku and Vegeta was absolute genius in terms of marketing. There are so many Vegeta fans out there, and I'm sure a lot of them crawled out just to buy all the SSB Vegeta merch.
But in terms of narrative...eh. It exists. It doesn't make much of a impact. It's blue.
I'll take over SSJ 5 any day.
edited 9th Nov '15 7:27:41 PM by LOLypop1224
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!![]()
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Canon: These events happened and are apart of the established storyline.
Non-Canon: Things that do not qualify as the above.
Seems pretty straight forward. But since you insist on this "its only real if I believe it" shtick. I choose to believe your theories aren't real and therefore choose to ignore them for here on out. Kbai.[
edited 9th Nov '15 7:30:53 PM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.If we're counting AF, then my "headcanon" on the strength of the Super Saiyan form are Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan 4 < Super Saiyan 5 < Super Saiyan God = Saiyan beyond God < Super Saiyan Blue.
Note, I really kind of stop caring about the AF and miscellaneous forms after 6, and this is just for the most iconic ones. If I put 6 in this, I'd put it equal to Super Saiyan God.
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!Um. I sorta think it's interesting how Oolong serves as a commentary on the exploitation and abuse of Mao's communism?
I mean, there's some stories that indicate Mao was a date rapist himself, so.
It fits.
edited 9th Nov '15 7:40:19 PM by unnoun
I still think that's in pig years.
Instead Oolong hands out with Roshi and reads and watches lots of porn.
And I get the distinct sense the main reason he didn't keep doing what he did before he met Goku was fear of reprisal.
...Also, how old do you have to be to grow out of being a communist? Because I'm in my 30s and I sure haven't.
I mean, did Oolong switch types of communism? To Stalinism, or Leninism or Trotskyism, or maybe the Frankfurt school?
I mean, personally I consider myself a Situationist ideologically.
EDIT: Wait, grew out of being a creepazoid or grew out of being a communist? Because they aren't the same thing.
edited 9th Nov '15 7:53:20 PM by unnoun
Oolong was really interesting in the first arc. He actually did a lot.
At least he managed to save the world before he got shoved to the side. You can't say that for other characters.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!

Shite.
My various fanfics.