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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#27626: Nov 9th 2015 at 3:50:23 PM

I think it's more that Freeza grows spikes while the Saiyans just grow hair.

32ndfreeze Since: Mar, 2012
#27627: Nov 9th 2015 at 3:57:10 PM

Maybe there's some sort of weird biological component to the armor that only works with Saiyan biology.

Knowing Saiyan's the guy who invented it probably is long dead and died without recognition.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#27628: Nov 9th 2015 at 3:57:56 PM

Weren't the Tuffles a GT invention?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#27629: Nov 9th 2015 at 3:58:53 PM

[up][up]He was an average fighter, but he was a brilliant scientist.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#27631: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:00:41 PM

Where were they talked about in Z?

Because the only time I ever heard about them was watching stuff from GT.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27632: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:02:59 PM

Dragon Ball: Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#27633: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:03:51 PM

Didn't that come after GT, though?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27634: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:04:23 PM

The Tuffles were mentioned in Filler in the Anime in Z. King Kai told Goku a story about them. And how the Saiyans killed them all.

And Toriyama mentioned them in an interview.

Scouter Q&A.

Incidentally, its inventors were the Tsufruians, the original inhabitants of Planet Vegeta who were wiped out by the Saiyans. Originally, it was a device for the purpose of guarding against enemies and beasts, but Gichamu, a highly skilled engineer in Freeza’s army, laid eyes on it and made modifications for concrete battle power numbers and telecommunications abilities, and soldiers began making use of it to carry out offensives.

edited 9th Nov '15 4:05:17 PM by unnoun

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#27635: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:04:43 PM

The Tuffles were mentioned in Z filler, too.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27636: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:06:54 PM

Them inventing Scouters fits with their portrayal in everything else.

Although the Tuffles were physically weak compared to the Saiyans, they were good with technology.

Also, the fact that Toriyama calls them "the original inhabitants" of Planet Vegeta, also seems to indicate the thing from the Filler about the Saiyans coming to Planet Vegeta from somewhere else is actually true.

edited 9th Nov '15 4:07:48 PM by unnoun

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#27637: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:06:56 PM

So it's kind of a Canon Immigrant thing, then?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#27638: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:08:47 PM

I interrupt your discussion to bring you this glorious animation.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27639: Nov 9th 2015 at 4:10:34 PM

I mean, the idea of the Saiyans coming to Planet Plant from somewhere else is a little weird, because how the fuck would the Saiyans invent a space ship?

On the other hand, the idea that they had to abandon their first planet because they ended up blowing it up fits amazingly well.

I like to imagine the first and only Saiyan-designed spaceship was a piece of junk held together with duck tape and didn't so much land as crash.

The fact that the story also mentions the Saiyans living divided in tribes in the wastes of Planet Plant while the Tuffles lived in fertile cities is. I mean. I sorta like the idea of class warfare between the Saiyans and Tuffles. It's my jam.

Like, apparently the Tuffles and their technology were winning the war, and overwhelmingly so.

Until the Saiyan tribes united and launched a coordinated attack on the first Full Moon in ten years.

Because a bunch of Great Apes working together is a terrifying thing.

edited 9th Nov '15 4:20:51 PM by unnoun

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#27640: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:32:05 PM

That the Tuffles were the oppressors originally is definitely an interesting idea.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#27641: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:38:45 PM

Sayians were dirt poor because they were a bunch of violent barbarians that spent more time fighting each other than doing anything productive. Not because Tuffles were oppressing them. Let's not make up justifications for their genocide.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27642: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:40:34 PM

Sayians were dirt poor because they were a bunch of violent barbarians that spent more time fighting each other than doing anything productive.

According to Raichi. According to Baby.

According to Vegeta the Tuffles were oppressive imperialist dicks.

I mean, I'm not saying Vegeta's right, but. I mean, yeah, he's a murderous asshole himself.

But I will say that I like the idea of there being some genuine ambiguity there.

I mean, nevermind the fact that's basically the exact same rhetoric a lot of imperialists throughout history have used to justify themselves.

...I'm imagining the Tuffles enslaving Saiyans and making them fight in arenas.

Fostering conflict between different tribes.

Saiyan prostitutes and sex slaves being considered "exotic".

edited 9th Nov '15 5:44:05 PM by unnoun

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#27643: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:44:26 PM

Sayians went on to merrily travel the universe and preform genocides for money. That they killed Tuffels for no good reason at all is totally in character for them.

I mean, nevermind the fact that's basically the exact same rhetoric a lot of imperialists throughout history have used to justify themselves.

Except with Sayians that's literally true.

And how could Tuffels be imperialists when it's the Sayains that came to their planet?

edited 9th Nov '15 5:45:39 PM by Shlugo_the_great

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27644: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:46:35 PM

Sayians went on to merrily travel the universe and preform genocides for money. That they killed Tuffels for no good reason at all is totally in character for them.

And how could Tuffels be imperialists when it's the Sayains that came to their planet?

I mean.

It's basically the same situation as immigrants and refugees in modern society.

The established people hold all the cards.

The Tuffles got the fertile land, and the cities, and the technology. The Saiyans got the arid, barren deserts, mountains, and badlands.

And given the way Saiyans eat.

...And, I mean, the Saiyans also did genocides to not be genocided themselves.

The Saiyans are all about fighting, but the complete decimation and slaughter of those too weak to fight back is. I mean.

I can imagine that being more recent and a being more of a result of Frieza.

Like, I can't imagine that the Saiyans would like it very much. Not when the Saiyans are all about good fights. Fun fights. Challenging fights.

edited 9th Nov '15 5:48:51 PM by unnoun

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#27645: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:48:12 PM

Though Raichi and Baby were actually there, right? Not that they wouldn't be biased of course, but you'd think they'd know better than Vegeta, who was born centuries later.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27646: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:49:04 PM

Knowing Saiyan's the guy who invented it probably is long dead and died without recognition.

Sucks for Bardock.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27647: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:50:08 PM

According to Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, Vegeta's dad was the one that lead the uprising.

Don't ask me how that works.

I mean, yeah, according to Toriyama Saiyans can naturally live a lot longer than humans.

And I'll be honest, the fact that Raichi and Baby are so quick to resort to the "monkey" slur doesn't exactly paint them as unbiased or especially endearing either.

edited 9th Nov '15 5:50:46 PM by unnoun

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#27648: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:51:19 PM

The problem is that, while the Tuffles are canon, Raichi and Baby aren't.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27649: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:52:42 PM

I mean, I've been going off of Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans.

The only things Toriyama said about Tuffles is that they lived on Planet Plant before the Saiyans did, and they invented Scouters.

Which is nice, but.

I'm thinking of interesting story ideas here. Shush.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#27650: Nov 9th 2015 at 5:53:03 PM

It's basically the same situation as immigrants and refugees in modern society.

Except when immigrants show up, the native population is not exterminated. If it that was the case it would be a pretty solid argument against it.


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