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Everzwijn glarblgrklgrgg from under your bed Since: Sep, 2009
#27377: Nov 7th 2015 at 3:43:57 AM

Watching Super, I think Hercule is quickly becoming my favourite character. He's just so lovable. The episode where he went super saiyan was the best episode yet. Absolutely hilarious. And I love how he sparred with Gohan.

And I hate Chichi so much right now. She was always annoying, but in the past you could always justify it that she had the right intentions. But when I heard her say she spent all that money in such a short time, I lost all respect for her. She has no right to lecture Goku after that. She's even more irresponsible than he is. And I hate how she acts like she gets to decide how Pan is raised. She's not her child. She should leave Gohan and Videl to raise her the way they want to.

"No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me!" ~ Sonic The Hedgehog, Sonic Colours
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#27378: Nov 7th 2015 at 4:14:06 AM

I too loved the episode where he once again took credit for achievements of others and got away with it. What a guy!

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#27379: Nov 7th 2015 at 4:19:07 AM

To be fair, none of them want the attention.

Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#27380: Nov 7th 2015 at 4:40:04 AM

Chi-Chi doesn't know how to handle money.

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
Everzwijn glarblgrklgrgg from under your bed Since: Sep, 2009
#27381: Nov 7th 2015 at 5:05:05 AM

[up][up][up] Dude, they want him to take the credit. He's their public relations guy. Gotta love how we can keep the crowd calm even when he himself is panicking inside.

[up]Makes it all the more annoying that she's lecturing everyone else. She thinks it's Goku's fault they're broke even though Goku got them enough money to last a lifetime and she was the one to blow it.

"No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me!" ~ Sonic The Hedgehog, Sonic Colours
Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#27382: Nov 7th 2015 at 5:11:23 AM

Yeah, Chi-Chi spent 100 million on one of the richest couples in the planet and then somehow thinks that saving the planet repeatedly isn't a good example for his granddaughter. In related news, who's your favorite Dragon Ball couple?

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27383: Nov 7th 2015 at 6:39:27 AM

It took me years from when I was a kid to see anything likable about Mr. Satan. I still don't really care for him but it's better than outright dislike.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27384: Nov 7th 2015 at 7:41:39 AM

I think Mr. Satan really shined when he actually convinced Buu to stop being evil. No throwing punches, no huge energy blasts, just simple reason and kindness.

If Toriyama had as much respect for the rest of the human characters that he did Satan, it'd be great.

I also agree that Dabura got wasted. There was a lot to explore both with him, and the Demon World, and Toriyama used him as nothing more than a measuring stick for Buu.

One Strip! One Strip!
Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#27385: Nov 7th 2015 at 7:47:56 AM

Dabura and King Cold were both examples of wasting perfectly good characters. Cui, who was used in Namek Saga to bring in the concept of "zenkai" is not.

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#27386: Nov 7th 2015 at 8:37:25 AM

I really liked Mr. Satan in the Buu saga myself; it made him more than just a glory-hog

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#27387: Nov 7th 2015 at 8:39:41 AM

[up][up] I still think the biggest waste of a villain would have to be Dr. Gero. He's got a solid, albeit retconned in, grudge against Goku specifically (making him less of a Generic Doomsday Villain than the ones to come), and the energy absorber tech could have made him a formidable threat without having to fall back so much on power escalation.

[up] Fat Buu's Heel–Face Turn is my favorite part of the saga :)

edited 7th Nov '15 8:40:39 AM by DoctorDiabolical

Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#27388: Nov 7th 2015 at 8:40:12 AM

I think Mr. Satan is just a huge Lovable Coward. And my burning hate for him evaporated when he gave Goku all of that money and when I watched him redeem Majin Buu. Too Bad Chichi had to waste it.

[up] To be fair, he was supposed to be the main villain before he got replaced by Androids 17 and 18, and then eventually Cell.

edited 7th Nov '15 8:42:00 AM by Piando

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#27389: Nov 7th 2015 at 8:47:15 AM

[up] Yeah, and IMO, he probably would have made for a more interesting main villain too. Toriyama's old editor is a troll tongue

Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#27390: Nov 7th 2015 at 8:50:54 AM

[up] I could possibly see a Big Bad Duumvirate with him and Cell.

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27391: Nov 7th 2015 at 8:54:12 AM

I don't even think Gero needed to be killed off. Just have 17 and 18 join in along with him, as a sign of how much the timeline had changed, or have him swap out and the betrayal come later.

One Strip! One Strip!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#27392: Nov 7th 2015 at 9:50:09 AM

Yeah, a mad scientist would have been an interesting villain.

Oh yeah, official heights. Um, Dragon Ball was penned in Japan, where I believe an average woman's height is 5'2, however the story was initially based on A Journey To The West, which started in China and went across the Asian continent to India, so taking the world's modern twist into account you could bump the average height of any woman encountered up to 5'4, which seems about right for Vegeta, it makes him larger than that other mass market approved "badass" Wolverine.

Equally appropriate for Vegeta(and Freezer for that matter) being the average height of an industrialized woman is Goku being the same for men at 5'9, Santo sized. My only issue is Yajirobe being taller than Vegeta. I thought he was the same size as Krillen.

Buldogue's lawyer
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#27393: Nov 7th 2015 at 9:52:09 AM

What about Roshi being taller than Vegeta? That's just wonderful.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#27394: Nov 7th 2015 at 9:58:35 AM

Gero and 19 underwhelmed me (did 19 even speak?) so I had no problems with them being swapped out. Then again, who knows what Toriyama's original plan for them was?

edited 7th Nov '15 10:00:04 AM by HamburgerTime

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#27395: Nov 7th 2015 at 10:03:55 AM

Roshi walks with a hunch but he's still capable of standing up to his full height, likely due to the fountain of youth or something, so I can totally buy it.

There's something else I haven't thought of though, relating to a different topic. We know that Gotenks was stronger than SS3 Goku when he fought Fat Buu as just a regular super saiyan. However, we also know that Goku wasn't using his full might in that battle, time constraint, wanting to pass on knowledge to the next generation and let them beat Buu, ect.

In Yo, Son Goku And His Friends Return, we see that both Goku and Vegeta are capable of beating Abocado as super saiyans, which suggests Gotenks is only one level stronger than them when they aren't stalling for time(both were racing to be the one that beat him). On the other hand, is there anything that suggests Goten and Trunks can't go SS3 as individuals? True, we never see them do it, but do you think they can?

Buldogue's lawyer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27396: Nov 7th 2015 at 10:05:53 AM

I question if he had a long term plan.

I mean, we've been over the fact that Toriyama's work is full of retcons and asspulls, in addition to just making it up as he went along.

It's not a shock that he changed things so quickly when he likely had no real concrete idea for what he would do with them beyond being Androids.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#27397: Nov 7th 2015 at 10:07:09 AM

To be fair, a lot of the changes to the Android Saga apparently happened because of Toriyama's former editor.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27398: Nov 7th 2015 at 10:09:54 AM

Yeah, I know that, but the fact that he was so willing to make the changes (when he didn't even have to) makes me think that he wasn't attached enough to them to keep them around.

Maybe if he'd plotted things out more long term, he could have worked out all the kinks and figured out what he wanted to do with the help of his editor, but instead he kept changing things on the fly.

It mostly worked out (I admit that 17 and 18 are better, and despite some logical complaints about him, I like Cell as well) but a little more organization would have made things tighter.

Edit: So I'm finally caught up on Super.

....I slightly agree with Chi-chi's anti baby tossing philosophy. I do wish they'd tone down the controlling mother / nagging wife thing, especially since once Goku actually left, she was just like oh well, nothing to do about it.

They again, as has been pointed out, she never had much character in the original series anyway, so Toei didn't have much to work with.....and still found a way to make her worse.

We're getting closer to the Revival of F arc of the series too? Is there anything anyone wants to see in this version?

edited 7th Nov '15 10:40:22 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#27399: Nov 7th 2015 at 11:19:53 AM

Freeza training, Yamcha and Chioutzu beating up Freeza Soldiers, and more time for Vegeta to beat the shit out of Freeza after Freeza vs Goku.

Piando 18's Glomp OF DOOM Since: Jun, 2015
18's Glomp OF DOOM
#27400: Nov 7th 2015 at 11:21:20 AM

[up][up] Krillin and 18 to fight as a Battle Couple.

I love you, Krillin!! -struggling to breathe- I love you as well, honey..

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