So you're saying it's untrue that Gohan would lose control and become something dangerous because he.....arguably did exactly what he was afraid he'd do?
Also note he got his dad killed because he lost control of himself.
Well, you're the manga man Saiga? What did Gohan say about why he didn't want to fight Cell in the original story?
One Strip! One Strip!Yeah. Gohan looked at the Cell Games and he basically just saw a big, stupid, pointless Conflict Ball with no possible benefit to anyone involved. Which, to his credit, it absolutely was. It made perfect sense to the likes of Cell and Goku because this is what they do. For Goku, it's his passion. For Cell, he ran out of character motivation when he absorbed 17 and 18, achieving his only goal and winning the conflict. With everything on his villainous goals checklist completed, he fell back on his genetic makeup and was like, "Well, let's just make a big spectacle event of punching each other until someone wins. And you're gonna be there 'cause I'll blow up the Earth if you don't, obvs."
And Goku was like, "Dude, I'd be there if you weren't going to blow up the Earth because I LOVE punching each other until someone wins!"
And Gohan's standing there going, "Why is this even happening?! This whole thing is stupid! Holding a tournament where we just beat the crap out of each other for no reason is stupid! Threatening to kill the world if we don't compete in the punching tournament is stupid! We ran out of excuses to be hurting each other several chapters ago but we're still doing it! Why are we still doing it?!"
Gohan had no investment in the fight. He knew his father was counting on him to lose his temper and unleash his hidden power but he didn't want to because he saw no value in the whole thing. So Cell, after hearing the story about Gohan's hidden power, gave into his Saiyan genes and was like, "That sounds AWESOME. I'm going to piss you off until you do it!"
Gohan was also afraid of his hidden power, which he admits when Cell starts trying to force it out of him by killing his friends. It took 16 convincing him that it's okay to let go and hurt someone if that person is hurting others and can't be reasoned with, for him to finally unlock his hidden power.
edited 4th Nov '15 12:44:29 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Basically, Gohan was actually talking logically. Which I really liked. It's not often you see a character in Dragon Ball go "wait, why don't we just not fight?"
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!Well, that's certainly one interpretation of things. I wouldn't exactly call it logically because it ignores everything already established about Cell and things Gohan should already understand very well.
We can all agree that destroying the world if they don't beat him in the tournament is stupid but he should be beyond questioning the motives of guys like Cell and just do what he has to do at that point.
edited 4th Nov '15 9:09:55 PM by LSBK
Ummm- No that's pretty much what Gohan says. He says that this is dumb and pointless and Cell gets pissed. Cell attacks Gohan but Gohan maintains that it's dumb and pointless. Gohan mentions that you wouldn't like him when he's angry and Cell takes that as a promise and brings out the Cell Juniors. Only then does Gohan start getting mad and, even than, Cell is still stronger.
So I'm finally catching up on Super.
Just caught episode 11. Hoping to be caught up with everyone else soon.
As for how logical it was or wasn't for Gohan to point out how pointless the shit Cell was doing was. I think at that point, Cell just wanted a good fight, and didn't give a shit about how he got it.
Is there no point in destroying the world? No. Do I think he would have done it to be a dick? Well, yeah. He clearly enjoyed eating people to power up. I can totally see him blowing up the earth to get a good challenge. I can see him doing it if he loses; I can see him doing it if he wins, cause he's a massive asshole, with the genes of at least two assholes in his being. Plus, he doesn't give enough of a shit about human lives to not fuck with them by killing them all.
One Strip! One Strip!I'm still going through this entire thread for fun. There's a lot of Hilarious in Hindsight quotes that I've found. And anyway, one thing I realised is that this thread has doubled in size within the space of a few months. Obviously, that's because of the new material. It makes sense. But...geez. This thread started years ago.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!![]()
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I think Cell wanted to prove without the shadow of a doubt he was the very best and there was nothing anyone could do about it. After all he hosted the Cell Games because he saw how Trunks and Vegeta improved and thought they could get even better a few days later. So of course he'd be annoyed to hear Gohan telling him it's all pointless especially since Goku told him earlier that Gohan can beat him.
On another note, I've been thinking about Broly lately and it confuses me how he turned out to be this brute who screams Kakarot a lot in Broly second coming. In the first movie he was only obsessed about Goku when he first met him. And that's because he was struggling against his father mind control. He couldn't think about anything else because his hate was the only thing he had left. And even then it wasn't intense enough to break through Paragus' mind control. When Paragus lets him loose he's so happy to finally be free that killing Goku is just the first of many things he sets out to do. In his first movie he enjoys pummeling Trunks, Piccolo, Vegeta and Gohan just as much as destroying a planet just to crush the hopes and dreams of a bunch of slaves. In movie 10 however he gets frustrated when he realises Gohan is not Goku and Goku is not coming to confront him. It's a bit annoying come to think of it.
When I think about his backstory I see Broly as a potential Tragic Monster who never had a normal childhood because he was born so powerful noone could teach him to control his strength and especially not his father. And Paragus could have a much bigger role than he had since he used Broly's power to further his own agendas. It's much more interesting for me to think Broly as someone who gradually was driven insane by his lifestyle. I like to see Broly as a character who's been Cursed with Awesome and was destroyed by his own power because his guardian failed him and because he came to associate destruction with the freedom to be himself and to have fun without being afraid to break everything around him. But that's just the ramblings of someone who's always liked this character and who's probably overthinking.
I'm a bit disappointed in Super.
I miss the days when Videl had a personality.
She's been really goddamned passive.
...I mean. She turned Super Saiyan earlier. That was cool.
I mean.
Videl being a stay at home mom and not fighting is. I mean. Not something I really expect of her?
Like, no, she can't fight threats to the planet, but she can still go to the gym. Personality wise she was always closer to Goku and Vegeta in the sense that she likes punching things.
And now that's gone and. There's nothing left really?
She's an empty husk of a character now.
It's sorta really sad.
edited 5th Nov '15 2:27:15 AM by unnoun
The Chickification happened to Chi-Chi and sort of to 18. I don't know what we're expecting.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!I mean, 18 got to swindle a guy and get rich.
Chi-Chi became really overbearing.
When you take away Videl's fighting nerd stuff she doesn't quite have anything left anymore.
Like, I'm not even criticizing Videl's character in Super the way I would Chi-Chi's or 18's because she doesn't have one.
She's become bland and boring.
I mean, being abrasive and unlikeable like Chi-Chi would be a step up at this point.
I just don't understand.
edited 5th Nov '15 2:30:33 AM by unnoun
Because giving Videl a personality would require effort and giving screentime to non-fighters. And why would they bother doing that?
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!Chickification didn't happen to Chichi, that's what she always was. In her first appearance she almost accidentally killed a dinosaur, asked Goku to marry her or whatever and then the next time she appeared years later she fought Goku and lost miserably while he was holding back. Then they got married.
Gohan pointing out the pointless nature of the Cell game and Cell's motivations in general is just fine. Refusing to fight a monster that's murdered more people than Earth's god can keep track of though, that wasn't rational. At the very least, Cell needed a demonstration that showed 1:we don't appreciate that, 2:you will suffer consequences if you try that again. At the very least. But then Gohan went too far in the opposite direction and decided drag out the fight with Cell a lot longer than he needed to. He's every bit as ineffective at the whole 'defender' thing as his father, just not in the same ways.
As for Videl, I guess TOEI saw no point in having a Blood Knight who Can't Catch Up, couldn't come up with anything since entitled loudmouth, overbearing smother and grumpy laconic were already taken and thought a fourth wife with a temper was pushing it anyway. Honestly, I think I would have dialed down her temper too but have kept her interest in training and fighting anyway by conrasting it with Gohan's lack of those things and through their career as superheroes.(Of course I also wouldn't have padding out the show with side plots for everyone instead of redrawing those two movies so what do I know?)
edited 5th Nov '15 6:22:17 AM by IndirectActiveTransport
Buldogue's lawyerThat is kinda rude.
As for the Chi-chi never had much personality thing, she could have if Toriyama had bothered to give her one, but he seems to think all female characters need to completely give up fighting and become housewives.
Now Chi-chi apparently wanted this, so while it's irking, I can deal with it (I'm not happy about it, nor am I happy about the way she's written, but I can deal), and 18 really only cares about money and her husband, and doesn't even need to train since she can't actually age or get weaker anyway.
But as Unnoun pointed out, Videl is a hardcore fighter who went around as the local superhero of her town. Her not being interested in fighting at all anymore is uncool. Unless they are gonna tell us she still does it offscreen (since she's fully aware of how outmatched she is in the regular kinds of fights the Z Warriors get into), I'm calling bullshit.
And enough with making fun of Yamcha. I really don't think it's funny anymore.
One Strip! One Strip!

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