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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26426: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:25:43 PM

I don't remember anything about them holding back. Maybe that was a dub change then.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26427: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:29:52 PM

It's in the manga anyway.

[up][up] Power creep has nothing to do with the series ended their, either. You wouldn't even need to change much to continue the series as it was without it.

And I don't think Goten and Trunks are an accurate example of Power Creep. Their situation is not much different from Gohan's, we just skip the earlier stage of their lives when they'd be weaker.

I mean if our first introduction of Gohan was his Cell Games self, it'd look like Power Creep.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#26428: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:32:04 PM

I really wish Frieza was 1/100th as strong as he actually was, at least.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26429: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:40:49 PM

I'd have liked it if he was maybe a little weaker too.

Then again, now I believe the Android saga should have come before the Saiyan Saga, and then have Gero go back to the drawing board and bring in Cell.

Or something along those lines, but we got what we got, and it's not like it was awful.

There are some moments I wouldn't trade for anything.

Remember folks. Fem Whis is stronger than a Whis. That's great.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26430: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:43:48 PM

That would make for an extremely weird narrative. The Saiyan arc follows up from the 23rd Budokai pretty well so wedging another arc in-between would be just plain weird.

Then Cell would have to carry an entire arc by himself, and you'd have to remove all references to the future timeline, which just plain fucks everything up. Then Xenoverse as a concept probably wouldn't happen.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26431: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:50:54 PM

I love how much it bothers people how outclassed every non-saiyan character is, the salt never gets old.

Anyway, yea; Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are pretty much the best bet; everyone else is too weak and Buu would probably have to be bribed to cooperate.

However, if they wanna add some drooma, Vegeta might just defect to Champa's side just to kick Goku's ass.

Speaking of, Goku is still better. Vegeta had to go Super Saiyan Blue just so Goku wouldn't beat him in a sparring match.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26432: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:50:59 PM

[up][up]Eh yeah. Probably.

I should just go back to accepting that the Saiyans are just an entire race of Monkey Kings and accept the high power levels.

I mean, it's not like humans were much good in Journey To The West either.

edited 17th Oct '15 7:18:08 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26433: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:51:57 PM

I'm not particularly bothered by it. Though reading all the discussions about it is (usually) fun for me.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26434: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:53:25 PM

[up] In what way?

[up][up][up] But why not Mr Boo?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26435: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:53:51 PM

I'm not bothered by the Power Creep.

Although now that I've read what the trope is actually about, I'm a little surprised how well it holds up as a term when we switch over to narratives.

edited 17th Oct '15 6:55:13 PM by VeryMelon

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26436: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:55:45 PM

[up][up]I just like discussion in general. I try to spur it on in some other threads to mixed success but here all you have to do is mention Power Levels or humans getting left behind and, boom, instant talking that often leads to other things.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26437: Oct 17th 2015 at 6:59:17 PM

[up][up][up] He really doesn't seem like a Team player, all he seems to care about is food. I mean, I hope he cooperates for the sake of some variety in fighters beyond just the saiyans, but I'm not holding my breath. Most material so far has been pretty Goku & Vegeta focused as far as fighting is concerned.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#26438: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:02:03 PM

It just makes me wonder why Saiyans of all races are so overpowered, and have so many inbuilt biological powerups. Like, were they an intended-to-be slave race manufactured by the PTO or something? Everything about them is just too perfect for an overpowered warrior race.

edited 17th Oct '15 7:03:35 PM by HamburgerTime

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26439: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:12:34 PM

I mean, they're biologically inclined to get strong as possible; is it really that surprising a race that's literally born to fight, are the best fighters?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#26440: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:19:16 PM

That is probably the best explanation. They became great fighters because of their biology, not the other way around.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#26441: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:35:06 PM

To be fair, being stronger than 18 does not automatically put Goten and Trunks on Piccolo's level necessarily, because Piccolo matched 17 evenly and 17 is stronger than 18 (because of bullshit reasons that probably have more to do with unintentional sexism because Japan than anything else).

[up]If anything, I actually think it's more like they developed those inbuilt racial hax because they were naturally predisposed to violence.

So, basically, they fought so much that they evolved so that they were better fighters, not the other way around.

edited 17th Oct '15 7:36:47 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26442: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:38:46 PM

I would say they probably are stronger than Piccolo and 18 now, post room of Time and Spirit Training.

Before that, they could have been weaker, due to a lack of proper training outside of their Super Saiyan play fighting, and maybe whatever training they both got with Gohan and Vegeta respectively before the World's Martial Arts tournament.

That makes the most sense to me.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26443: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:43:46 PM

Super Saiyan fighting is the most effective training method, though. That, and mastering the form, is what made Gohan and Goku's training more effective.

More "proper" training would be about honing skills, but it terms of pure power they've already gone the best route.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#26444: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:48:58 PM

[up] Relatedly, I can't help but wonder if Chichi's a lot stronger now. She trained Goten, and sparring with a Super Saiyan, even one that's obviously holding waaaaaaaaaaaaay back, is probably good for you.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26445: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:50:50 PM
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26446: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:51:24 PM

She never sparred with Super Saiyan Goten. In the manga she just taught Goten the stances. In the anime she sparred with him and got taken out in one kick by Super Saiyan Goten.

I don't see that raising her strength by any notable amount.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#26447: Oct 17th 2015 at 7:54:17 PM

Also remember: Master Roshi was still able to train Krillin even though Krillin had long since surpassed him in raw power.

Chichi is an incredibly superior fighter to Goten in terms of skill...

... But past a certain level of brute strength difference, the gap in skill becomes completely meaningless.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26448: Oct 17th 2015 at 8:54:52 PM

This kind of makes me think, does this series put a notable focus on essential fighting skills as opposed to just straight up power?

Its like, basic form, not exhausting too much power, discipline, etc etc. If so, who do you think lacks these certain skills compared to others?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26449: Oct 17th 2015 at 8:57:00 PM

I feel like the answer to that is Yamcha.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26450: Oct 17th 2015 at 8:59:45 PM

If you're trying to say skill is meaningless, I don't agree because I think that's why Goku is consistently considered to be a better fighter than Vegeta. Remember, Goku wasn't always stronger than him.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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