Ultimate Gohan does not have a multiplier because it is not a transformation. Ultimate Gohan's base = SS 3 Gohan after reaching the absolute pinnacle of his potential power.
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It absolutely does matter, because a Saiyan's base strength determines how powerful they are as an individual, not as someone relying on the race's forms. And as Gohan has the greatest dormant power among Saiyans who all have the possibility to reach Super Saiyan 3 that means you're arguing all Saiyans can't hope to match Tenshinhan's dormant power without relying on Super Saiyan transformations. And there is no logic in that, there is no basis for that.
It's an argument without any points, evidence, reason or substance. You're just saying "this is how strong he would be, anything that suggests otherwise doesn't matter".
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Well, Ultimate Gohan was all of Gohan's dormant power - at that point - brought out. The new Super Saiyan 3 Gohan is from the same era, meaning that level of power is also his peak. If he could go beyond that, then that would mean Ultimate Gohan didn't draw out Gohan's dormant power. Ultimate Gohan should definitely be using the Super Saiyan 3 power already, making no difference in power between him and a "fully trained" Super Saiyan 3 Gohan.
edited 17th Oct '15 12:47:59 AM by Saiga
But, 'full potential' includes Super Saiyan forms. Humans don't have a transformation we know of so 'full potential' only applies to base.
Saiga, you're arguing against canon. I understand that you hate all side characters but you let it cloud your judgement.
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I'm not shitting on Gohan. Saiga has made it clear that he hates side characters and thinks they should never amount to anything.
edited 17th Oct '15 12:58:22 AM by PushoverMediaCritic
But I'm not talking about full potential. Base and Super Saiyan are separate states, so if a Saiyan reaches their full potential they're still going to have a base level and that is totally important.
No, I'm not. You just don't understand what I'm saying. There is nothing in canon that draws a comparison between what a base Saiyan may reach and what a human may reach. I'm not arguing that Super Saiyan is part of a Saiyan's potential, I'm arguing against your ascertain that a Saiyan's base strength doesn't matter at all which has nothing to do with the canon.
Do not make such an assumption about me, that's bullshit. I don't hate any of the side characters, I just don't agree with shilling them or making claims about them that don't have an argument to back them up.
There is an enormous difference between "not believing Tenshinhan can reach Semi-Perfect Cell's level with just his potential" and "thinking side characters should never amount to anything". Now you're just trying to stick words in my mouth to discredit me, because you don't have an actual argument.
I don't remember Saiga hating the side characters. I mean, maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, but his arguments don't seem related to that. I don't think I've seen him say more than that they're side characters because the power curve skyrocketed and left behind just about everyone and that trying to say that one of the weaker characters in the story could somehow match possibly the strongest is very strange.
Also, don't let him get to you Saiga. He's either a troll or a young teenager and there's little point in getting upset with either.
edited 17th Oct '15 1:04:56 AM by Arha
I'm arguing that the base Saiyan doesn't matter when it comes to 'full potential'. It doesn't.
And Saiga, in every thread I've seen you in, you consistently say (paraphrasing) "who cares about the side characters, I want more of the protagonist and whoever the story tells me is important at the moment, the side characters should just be written out entirely'. Remember: I like binge-reading these threads, I've read you expouse that opinion many, many times.
That is a complete misrepresentation of what I've said. That's not even a paraphrasing, you're pulling that out of your ass.
That's just not even close to my opinion, and don't try to convince me otherwise what I believe. Try to pay attention - I don't like it when people put too much emphasis on side characters or expect unreasonable things out of them.
The way you're misrepresenting my views is just disgusting.
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I know, I should probably drop it. He'll continue to believe his own fantasy regardless, I doubt anyone else will buy into it, but I just really don't like people deliberately mangling my views.
edited 17th Oct '15 1:24:06 AM by Saiga
I could go back through the thread and find all the many, many times you've said almost that exact thing but proving a point isn't worth the effort and this argument has gotten sorely darailed.
Getting back to the discussion, base Saiyan doesn't affect 'full potential' because there are multiple transformations which are included, whereas base human does affect 'full potential' because there are no further transformations that we know of.
No. It does not devalue my point if I don't want to do an unreasonable amount of work to prove it. If I did put in the effort, I would be mocked for putting in that much effort to win a stupid debate on the internet. I'm not going to waste my time.
Are we going to return to the original debate: 'could Tenshinhan's full potential be more than 0.25% of Gohan's full potential?' or not?

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Wait, "at best he'd be even"? So wait, if Gohan with a 400x multiplier and without getting any weaker would only be equal to Ultimate Gohan at best, then would that mean Ultimate Gohan has a multiplier higher than 400?
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!