Man, that fight is just so slow. It has none of the energy of Goku VS Beerus.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!You know, I feel like they should have had Vegeta have the finishing blow on Frieza.
Like, I know they played Goku and Frieza up as these two rivals going at it, but they were never rivals. From Frieza's point of view, he was just having a normal day, Goku just showed out of nowhere, fulfilled an ancient prophecy, beat the shit out of him, and never showed up again.
Vegeta grew up under Frieza's heel. He hated him his entire life and always wanted to get revenge. Frieza and Vegeta have had a lot of history, whereas Goku was pretty much a Diabolus ex Machina for Frieza.
edited 7th Oct '15 9:10:04 PM by BaconManiac5000
what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else@Last Page Not a phobia OF an 'irrational phobia of logical systems of measuring', I asked what was the phobia FOR an 'irrational phobia of logical systems of measuring', which a large part of the Dragon Ball fanbase seems to have.
Okay, well in that case, "irrational phobia" is redundant.
Plus, one, no one is afraid of anything here that you post. :P
Two, you don't use logical systems of measuring, you just pull numbers out of your head that sound good and fit with your ideas.
what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone elseYou have no idea how much calculating I have done regarding Dragon Ball Power Levels. I have pages and pages of work estimating what they probably are just going off of statements like 'Bo G base Goku < 100% Freeza'. I even have estimated the 'curbstomp range': the point at which you become so much stronger than your opponent that they can't beat you in a one-v-one (which is when you're 30% stronger than them, by the way). My numbers are NOT random, though they aren't necessarily correct.
My system of Power Levels is no different from the in-universe system of Power Levels.
I prefer the Latin American dub, though I do like how the English dub made it seem like Freeza thought Vegeta was still trying to serve him, something I didn't pick up in the former(which may just be do to me being piss poor at Spanish). Vegeta is the first one to inform Freeza of his weakness in the Latin American one though.
Oh wait, we were talking about numerical power levels again weren't we. Look, I'm fine with talking power levels but the decision to put numbers behind them was not a good one in my opinion. Not when there was no scale to give an audience what any given number actually meant.
As of now we know Freeza's weakest form, post training, is somewhere past the billion mark, assuming his calculations were indeed correct(and he's had how long in hell to go over them). That power level is higher than post room of spirit and time Piccolo and slacked off Gohan but weaker than base Goku, post mastery of Super Saiyan God. If I had to guess, I'd say final form Freeza post training is stronger than Fat Buu, since that was what he was aiming for. We know Golden Freeza is stronger than SSGSS Goku/Vegeta but weaker than Beerus, since Beerus and Whis say there would be no struggle if they fought Golden Freeza together but Whis only says it's possible they could beat Beerus together.
Buldogue's lawyerHow are my numbers ridiculous? For context, some of my estimations for important, post-Freeza Saga, characters:
Android #18: 360,000,000
Piccolo: 400,000,000
Imperfect Cell (after drinking cities): 600,000,000
Semi-perfect Cell: 1,000,000,000
ASS 1 Vegeta: 1,350,000,000
SS 1 Goku: 3,000,000,000
SS 1 Gohan: 3,300,000,000
Perfect Cell 100%: 4,000,000,000
SS 2 Gohan: 6,600,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 6,300,000,000
Dabura: 6,000,000,000
SS 2 Madjinn Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
SS 3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
Super Buu: 50,000,000,000
SS 3 Gotenks: 52,000,000,000
Gohan: 70,000,000,000
Buuhan: 122,540,000,000
SS 1 Vegetto: 250,000,000,000
Kid Buu: 30,000,000,000
Beerus: 10,000,000,000,000
Whis: 15,000,000,000,000
SSG Goku: 6,000,000,000,000
These are all calculated estimations. Please elaborate on what's ridiculous about them.
edited 8th Oct '15 4:02:24 AM by PushoverMediaCritic
Before now, I hadn't posted Power Levels in many pages. This conversation started with someone taking an unnecessary potshot at me in the middle of a completely unrelated conversation. I don't post Power Levels nearly as much as I defend them when people decide to change the topic to rag on them for no reason.
imo it's really hard to gauge power levels. All this system (and indeed, most Power Level scales beyond canon) seems to do is rank characters at various points on a scale given who beats who, how close the match is, then judging by canon numbers approximately scales the other fighters on a numeric scale.
Something important to realize: Cell Games Goku SSJ and Cell Games Gohan SSJ are NOT the same SSJ that fought Freiza. It's actually a perfected version of the original SSJ state in the same way that ASSJ was an overclocked version of base SSJ.
So what was the problem with grade 2? Grade 3 drops the speed too low, but I don't remember grade 2 having any backups that would trump the increase in power it granted. Vegeta only lost to Perfect Cell because the letter was a lot stronger than him, not because grade to had a weakness.
It would seem to me that Goku would do better against Cell if he used Grade 2 Super Sayian instead.
It's never directly stated why Grade 2 itself is dropped however Goku does say that the regular Super Saiyan state has the best balance between power, speed and energy consumption. Grade 2 probably guzzles energy reserves like Grade 3 was mentioned to do.
Furthermore he was only shown getting used to the burden of Super Saiyan 1, if he were to suddenly use Grade 2 again he'd likely be introducing himself to all of that burden again and wouldn't be able to maintain it for as long.
But it's mostly speculation since Goku only specifically talked about Grade 3's flaws.
So maybe if not for the existence of Super Saiyan 2, Goku might have seen about fully mastering Grade 2 as well (not Grade three, since it's too slow).
Or, more ideally, Super Saiyan 2 is the fully mastered form of Grade 2/3.
It basically has all the advantages of 3 without the speed-loss.
Or am I late to the party on this?
One Strip! One Strip!

"I've been hurling you through cliffsides and you want to talk about my weakness?!"
My various fanfics.