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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26001: Oct 6th 2015 at 6:48:46 PM

Like, the Kaio-ken and all of the Crimson Chakra Cloaks, the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode (and associated forms) with the normal Super Saiyan forms, Six Paths Sage Mode (no cloak) with Saiyan beyond God, Six Paths Chakra Mode with the Super Saiyan God form...

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#26002: Oct 6th 2015 at 6:53:04 PM

Okay, yeah. So. First: Kaioken is not a transformation, it's a technique.

For another thing, while they're superficially similar in function, ultimately they're completely different, because one increases your power by forcing your body to the limit, the other forces your body to the limit by increasing your power. Sounds similar, yes, but they're the opposite.

Basically, Kaioken is closer to using the Gates than it is to using the Kyuubi Cloak.

And the Chakra Mode is functionally ridiculously different from the Super Saiyan trasnformation, starting with the fact that again, one uses your own power while the other relies on an external source, and going on with the fact that one's just an increase to your overall power while the other brings that and new powers on top of that. Furthermore, the Super Saiyan God transformation is, again, just an increase in power, while Naruto's Sage Mode has powers specific to it, and so does the Six Paths Sage Mode. Oh, you can call 'being able to sense godly ki' as a 'specific' power of SSJG, but when it comes down to it... yeah, you're a god while in that form so of course you can feel godly ki.

Also, technically, none of Naruto's 'transformations' are actually transformations. He doesn't change, after all. You can argue a case for Chakra mode, but that's kinda tenuous.

Much like the Kaioken, his transformations are more 'buffs' than anything else.

edited 6th Oct '15 6:59:15 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26003: Oct 6th 2015 at 7:02:53 PM

Just saying, both of them start with red-colored Super Modes, then completely trade them out with golden Super Modes. They then get a ridiculously powerful form that lets them match the gods of their worlds, before making the power their own and using it to make new forms based on a prior form, i.e., Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Six Paths Sage Kurama Mode.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26004: Oct 6th 2015 at 7:06:19 PM

The only things their forms have in common is that there is a lot of them.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26005: Oct 6th 2015 at 7:08:59 PM

Also, Super Saiyan God gives Goku a healing factor anyways now, so...

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26006: Oct 6th 2015 at 7:23:07 PM

So Naruto borrows heavily from Dragon Ball. Nothing new here.

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Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#26007: Oct 6th 2015 at 7:47:51 PM

And Akira, for that matter.

Watch Symphogear
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#26008: Oct 7th 2015 at 3:20:52 AM

Again, neither the Kyuubi cloaks nor the Kaioken were actually transformations. Just buffs.

Kaguya is not a goddess. She was just called that because she was immensely powerful. 'Rabbit Goddess' was just something people called her because, well, she might as well be a goddess compared to everyone that's not her direct children, but she is not, in fact, a goddess.

Beerus, however, is a God.

I'm talking in-universe, by the way. Kaguya is never actually a goddess within Naruto, it was always just a nickname for her, while Beerus very definitely is a God in universe.

Also, Naruto never 'made it his own'. The power was never his. Neither Kurama's nor the Sage's. 'Making it his own' implies that he'd be able to use it without help from either source, like how Goku got a massive power boost from the Super Saiyan God ritual even after the transformation stopped. However, without Kurama or the sage of six paths' chakra, Naruto cannot access those powerups.

It's not his own power and he did not make it his own, because at least in this regard, the Naruto universe is less bullshit than the Dragon Ball universe.

That, and it seems like Akira Toriyama saw the power escalation of late Naruto and the last and went "bitch I'm the king of ludicrous power escalation" so he got the Super team to go ridiculously over the top with Goku and Beerus' battle.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#26009: Oct 7th 2015 at 7:51:34 AM

I don't know. If anything inspired power escalation in Dragon Ball, I think it would be something much older, like that cartoon about that robot who could combine with everything in the universe, or one of Dragon Ball's traditional rivals such as Sailor Moon and Seiny Seiya, or an on going that's under the radar outside of Japan like Bastard!!.

But more likely, I just think power escalation is what Dragon Ball does. I think the only reason Beerus being stronger than every previous villain has people up in arms only because the series has been finished for so long they have forgotten Dragon Ball has been doing that since King Piccolo(and now he's in Dragon Ball Heroes to remind everyone). They did it again with Raddiz, and Nappa, and Vegeta, and Freeza, and Androids 18, 17 and 16, and Majin Buu. Dende in fact implied Buuhan was threatening the stability of the universe, so if Beerus is in fact stronger than Buuhan, him shaking it around a little shouldn't be too surprising.

But more so, I think TOEI has shown for the third time in a row it isn't qualified to make Dragon Ball cartoon shows. They started out alright, admittedly, but by the time they got to Namek lost it with the padding. GT is GT and now Super is once again loaded down with padding, over material already covered no less. Should have just stuck to movies, Dragon Ball could have gone to Sunrise, Tatsunoku or something if a series was a must. But you know, hindsight is 20-20. If TOEI don't turn it around it will still be their third strike. If they do prove me wrong, so be it, haven't had a reason to change my thoughts yet.

Buldogue's lawyer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26010: Oct 7th 2015 at 9:56:55 AM

So.....

Can Demigra use it's powers on either of the Dragons?

I mean, his magic lets him control anyone barring a God or those who have Godly Ki.

I don't think either Shen-ron or Porunga count as gods either. And since his magic can make the subjects more powerful, it might allow him to work around the inability of the dragon to grant a wish that's beyond the power of it's creator, or affect people more powerful than him.

I'm kinda curious about it now.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26011: Oct 7th 2015 at 10:07:13 AM

Ya know, he might have gotten better results if he had just blown up Porunga on Namek. Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, and Bulma probably would have survived but everyone else is dead (well, other than Goku and Freeza). This means no Dragon Balls after the Cell Saga which means the Earth's population is reduced to the Saiyans, Tenshinhan, and Satan. Then the Earth is destroyed and it's just Goku, Vegeta, and Satan. And then Goku fucks up and everybody dies to Kid Buu.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26012: Oct 7th 2015 at 11:25:30 AM

Shenlong and Porunga explicitly refer to themselves as Wish Dragon Gods.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#26013: Oct 7th 2015 at 11:27:46 AM

Referred to where? The same reference you get your power levels from?

My various fanfics.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26014: Oct 7th 2015 at 11:50:05 AM

I've been looking at when he's summoned and while he's never referred to himself as a god, he has explicitly lied. The second time he's summoned, he says that there's no wish he cannot grant.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26015: Oct 7th 2015 at 11:52:53 AM

[up][up]I get my Power Levels from my mind and I have never indicated otherwise. It might just be the anime dub or the manga dub but Shenlong stated once that he is a Dragon God.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#26016: Oct 7th 2015 at 11:54:04 AM

[up]I think that was the implication. :P

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26017: Oct 7th 2015 at 11:59:33 AM

The best I've got is that 神龍 does means "God Dragon" but I've never encountered Shenron referring to himself as such.

As for Porunga, I do believe that he is called the God of Dreams so there's that.

EDIT: Sorry, no, that's Dragon of Dreams.

edited 7th Oct '15 12:00:31 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26018: Oct 7th 2015 at 12:00:16 PM

Is there a trope for 'informed and calculated estimation'?

Also, what's the phobia for 'irrational phobia of logical systems of measuring'?

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26019: Oct 7th 2015 at 12:02:53 PM

Okay, I really wish I had access to the official translation of the manga right now. Hell, the original Japanese would suit my needs just fine, too. It seems no one can agree on what Porunga's name is supposed to mean in English.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#26020: Oct 7th 2015 at 12:08:20 PM

[up][up]There might be and a phobia of a phobia is redundant.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26021: Oct 7th 2015 at 12:12:50 PM

Well, phobophobia is actually a thing so....

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#26022: Oct 7th 2015 at 12:20:56 PM

[up][up] But I thought the only thing to fear was fear itself!

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26024: Oct 7th 2015 at 12:38:38 PM

I love it but I can't really understand him.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#26025: Oct 7th 2015 at 8:01:09 PM

I just realized how much I love the banter between Goku, Frieza, and Vegeta in this - Frieza's animosity is fantastic. Even the cheesier lines sound menacing. It almost makes me like non-chain smoker!Frieza.

"Go on, channel that Super Saiyan glow I hate so much."

"That's just the sort of small-minded drivel that makes your existence so intolerable."

"Very well, the black-haired Goku's pelt will look just as good on my wall."'

"Your words are as empty as your title. All hail Vegeta, prince of no one!"

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

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