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BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25876: Sep 30th 2015 at 6:43:49 PM

Vegeta trains on his own, doesn't rest, and pushes himself until he's near dead.

To be fair, that does work with his Saiyan biology.

That said, I get where you're coming from, but I do think that Vegeta definitely trains harder than Goku.

Goku just trains smarter.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25877: Sep 30th 2015 at 6:45:15 PM

Yeah, Vegeta may train a ton but he's kinda shit at it given that, until Whis, he hadn't actually had any training under a master.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25878: Sep 30th 2015 at 6:49:18 PM

By the way, whoever said that Mr. Satan isn't thought of very highly in "who would win?" debates wasn't kidding; I checked earlier today for pure curiosity's sake. Did find some people who thought he could take General Blue though.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#25879: Sep 30th 2015 at 6:50:53 PM

General Blue has Telekinesis that could freeze even Goku. Satan would lose.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25880: Sep 30th 2015 at 6:51:43 PM

I feel like Satan is stronger than Goku was when he fought Blue. I still think Blue would beat him though.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25881: Sep 30th 2015 at 6:55:40 PM

I feel that Mr. Satan is weaker than beginning of series Krillin, representative of the absolute pinnacle of Real Life fighting superstars.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25882: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:15:30 PM

@Shark Outright said to be false - around the late Cell/Boo arc the series shifted into Goku being the genius/talented one and said Vegeta couldn't keep up with Goku even by training harder.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#25883: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:16:45 PM

I'm not saying Goku isn't a genius or talented. But Vegeta had a huge fucking head start, and Goku had to work hard to surpass him.

My various fanfics.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25884: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:19:13 PM

In six days.

Again though, while Vegeta had been fighting his whole life, Goku had been training his whole life, as well as fighting.

Consider that he learned early on that there's always a bigger fish. Even with Frieza around, I don't think Vegeta ever got that through his head, at least when it came to his fellow saiyans.

One Strip! One Strip!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#25885: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:25:13 PM

Which is something else I've already mentioned. Goku trained hard because he always wanted to surpass his limits. Vegeta trained hard, too, but he had a mental block because he assumed that because he was Vegeta, he would eventually be the strongest again because of his birthright. That every instance of someone surpassing him was just an accident, and that he would always be the strongest in the end.

My various fanfics.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25886: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:33:49 PM

Which gives him a great character moment in the Buu Saga when he realizes that he's wrong in that assumption.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25887: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:52:00 PM

True.

And now that he's past that shit, it won't be long before he achieves Super Saiyan God.

Hell, this will be Vegeta's first time training under someone else. That's gonna do wonders for his fighting skill.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25888: Sep 30th 2015 at 7:57:33 PM

Who knows, he might even get stronger than Goku.

HAHAHAHAHAHA just kidding. :/

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#25889: Sep 30th 2015 at 8:04:16 PM

Well, he was stronger than Goku for a minute.

My various fanfics.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25890: Sep 30th 2015 at 8:27:22 PM

That's just Toriyama being a cocktease. :P

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25891: Sep 30th 2015 at 9:46:16 PM

Pretty much.

Becoming stronger than Goku is fucking difficult but possible.

Now, staying that way (when you're not Beerus or Whis) is a whole other story.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#25892: Sep 30th 2015 at 9:47:53 PM

Its like Vegeta is that much weaker than Goku anymore considering they both are quite literally at the same level power with Super Saiyan God.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25893: Sep 30th 2015 at 10:37:55 PM

Being stronger than Goku is an honor in this series.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#25894: Oct 1st 2015 at 5:00:45 AM

[up][up]Yeah, but, Vegeta couldn't reach that level of power on his own. Plus they literally had to both obtain godlike power for Vegeta to finally catch up, and even so,

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#25895: Oct 1st 2015 at 5:31:24 AM

Its the closest he'll ever be to Goku, let him have his moment dammit.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#25896: Oct 1st 2015 at 8:24:49 AM

Vegeta cannot have been at 23,000 when he fought Zarbon for the second time. That was his powerlevel when he fought Kiwi, IIRC, though I seem to recall it being 24,000. It might just be me remembering one of the games though.

Vegeta was at 24,000 when he fought both Cui and during his first fight with Zarbon. His power did not change between his arrival on Namek and the first zenkai he received on Namek, recovering in the healing tank after Monster Zarbon wrecked him.

Zarbon was at 23,000. We don't know how powerful his Monster form is, however, so it's impossible to say with certainty how Vegeta's battle power measured up to it.

As for the play by play, Vegeta fights dirty. He throws dirt in Zarbon's eyes to blind him and then takes advantage of the opportunity to land a few hits. He also taunts Zarbon afterward for the fact that his strength is dropping from the damage Vegeta's inflicted. However, he also attributes his newfound ability to keep up to his zenkai just before inflicting the mortal wound on Zarbon.

Vegeta curb-stomps Monster Zarbon in their rematch, but whether that's due to his zenkai, fighting smarter, or a combination of both is open to interpretation in a way that wouldn't be true against the likes of Frieza, Cell, or Majin Buu; characters who can shrug off mortal injuries and can only be defeated by overwhelming force.

edited 1st Oct '15 8:33:47 AM by TobiasDrake

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IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#25897: Oct 1st 2015 at 12:32:10 PM

Let's go back to gimmicks. Boss carrot had Taken for Granite(see also, Dabura, Majin Buu). Agent Purple could use the multiform technique without dividing power(sort of). General Blue could freeze people in place with his psychic powers(see also, Chaozu, East Supreme Kai). Invisibleman was invisible(see also, Yakkon). King Piccolo could make sons. Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta had special armor. Captain Ginyu could swap bodies. Androids 19 and 20 could drain energy. Androids 16, 17 and 18 had unlimited stamina. Cell had ludicrous regeneration(see also, Majin Buu). Babadi had Mind Control(sort of), Yakkon could eat light. Dabura had Hyper Space Arsenal. Majin Buu had absorption.

One of my favorite gimmicks comes from one of the non serial movies. Hirudegarn was invincible if people feared it, though that doesn't really lend itself to an arc of martial arts bouts it was a cool stand alone thing. Since we're on the topic, Janemba could open portals and teleport. Bojack's minions had an energy net. Metal Cooler had Ninja Purple's gimmick...

Well what new gimmicks can you come up with?

edited 1st Oct '15 12:34:03 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#25898: Oct 1st 2015 at 12:43:55 PM

Devilman can oneshot Buu. Nerf please.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#25899: Oct 1st 2015 at 12:44:22 PM

Ninja Murasaki wasn't using the Mutliform Technique or anything close to it, I still maintain that the space armor was largely pointless to the main fighters outside of looks (IANCE is going to rebuke me on this), Yakkon wasn't actually invisible, you're forgetting Guldo in your psychic powers list, and you're forgetting that Buyon was practically invulnerable.

[up] And Devilman.

edited 1st Oct '15 12:44:52 PM by Zelenal

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#25900: Oct 1st 2015 at 12:45:40 PM

No no no, space armor was SUPER important. It served an extremely valuable role in the franchise.

It allowed Vegeta to not be naked when he became a giant monkey.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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