Right. I messed up my Tien post.
I meant to say "before Vegeta call and roftstomped Cell.
I was also talking about his holding the line moment against Cell, but botched the context.
At that point, what he did was more than anyone had done to actually stop Cell, even since both 16 and Piccolo were stronger than his imperfect form and still fucked up.
One Strip! One Strip!The larger problem would be expecting any sole opponent to match one of Earth's stronger humans.
Freeza brought a bunch of mooks that had 3,000+ battle powers, with the sole exception of Shishami, to Earth. They all died like the chumps they should have.
So, just do something like that. Have the earth be threatened by tons of mooks for the weaker fighters to flush out and kill.
@Very Melon I hope we see other fighters fight the Mooks like 17.
@Black Yakuza: I said "will" because it hasn't happened in the show yet.
edited 28th Sep '15 12:58:41 PM by Cortez
That could work. The main problem with Frieza's Third Form is that it's utterly superfluous. He moved up to Third Form to start winning the fight harder, then moved on to Final Form for no real reason because nothing happened that could challenge Frieza's Third Form.
Frieza not being able to sense battle powers is as good a reason as any for why he kept transforming. Missing a Scouter, he has to gauge his opponent's level based on how well they do against him. The Scouter is his crutch. Without it, he's not comfortable if he isn't utterly dominating the fight with his overwhelming power. He transformed to Second Form because Vegeta wasn't immediately overwhelmed and moved to Third Form because Piccolo was pretty tough, even though he was sufficiently powerful in both instances to win.
But he goes to Final Form for lulz. Third Form is missing a genuine threat to make Frieza go, "Okay, their performance is improving. Time to transform again." Vegeta could fill that gap if Dende didn't take so long healing him, but another option would be if Piccolo and Nail were strong enough to combat Second Form, then they could have fused in desperation to put up a fight against Third.
edited 28th Sep '15 12:59:53 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Oh look, its this conversation again :V
Look, with the way the setting of Dragon Ball Z works, its always going to be pushing the Serial Escalation and Power Creep; that means there are constantly going to be new villains that are stronger than the previous ones that are going to outclass our supporting cast (because somebody needs to job to establish their threat level and to pave the way for The Hero to save the day).
Unless you make said villain weaker than previous ones, you don't really have an out...I mean yea, unless there's another Quirky Miniboss Squad but not many villains show up with that anymore. So yea, when it comes down to it...everything will almost always fall down to Goku & Vegeta to clean up.
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Would it have been better if Vegeta got his power-up and challenged Frieza before he went to his final form?
edited 28th Sep '15 1:05:34 PM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Sometimes thinking about the Power Creep headaches makes me wish the series had either stopped at Frieza or that the later villains hadn't been stronger than Frieza but had additional gimmicks that make them more dangerous - the Androids can't get tired, Cell can regenerate, Buu can absorb and regenerate...
And I realize how hypocritical this is since the biggest Power Creep culprit... is Frieza.
At least in the Kai Dub Frieza decides to transform partially because he's noticing Gohan becoming more and more powerful and, thinking about him or Vegeta becoming a super saiyan, felt it better to cautiously fight in a form he was sure they'd never be able to overcome.
I have no idea if any such justification is present in the original Japanese version or manga.
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The thing about that is, Dragon Ball pretty much spits in the face of Weak, but Skilled; you need both skill and strength in this series. So even if those characters had decent gimmicks, they'd still need to be strong enough to actually stand a chance against. Which goes right back to the Power Creep argument.
There's almost no way to avert Power Creep in this series unless you just take Goku & Vegeta out of the equation.
edited 28th Sep '15 1:27:24 PM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.![]()
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No Shulgo, you are not the only one :V
Real talk tho, I love the series for what it is, I just get annoyed at it's tropes sometimes in all honesty lol. I'd prefer if Toriyama played around with his formula once in a while. Battle of Gods was pretty unique in that regard.
Then Resurrection F ran right back into it lol.
edited 28th Sep '15 1:37:25 PM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Though, I would like to see a Weak, but Skilled villain show up, like OP's Foxy. Perhaps someone with some sort of anti-Saiyan technology; given their reputations as feared conquerors, certainly someone on some planet would've invented something like that?

Alternatively, have Nail and Piccolo work together in a fight and fuse after that, rather then just finding each other and fusing.