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DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#25576: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:09:48 AM

It's Dragon Ball. All of the humans increased their power by ten times training with Kami for a year. Frieza went from Frieza's power level to around Beerus' level in four months. If Toriyama cared about these characters, he could find an excuse for them to catch up to the Saiyans easy. Training has always been magical in the DB-'verse.

Yamcha: "Hey, do you think I could try the gravity room again?"
Bulma: "Sure! Be sure to work your way up this time!"

Tien: "Piccolo, Chiaotzu and I have hit a wall sparring in the mountains. We'd like to use the Room of Space and Time for a year."
Piccolo: "Of course. I'm glad you're taking an initiative in improving your skills."

Krillin: "Hey, 18 is getting bored not being able to spar anytime. I hear there is a way to unlock more of my potential. Do you think you could contact the world of the Kaioshin?"
Dende: "No problem! It shouldn't be but a minute."

edited 26th Sep '15 8:10:31 AM by DoctorDiabolical

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#25577: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:10:20 AM

Goku v. Krillin was a really cool fight. However, as is often the case in Dragon Ball, it was only a cool fight because one party was humoring the other.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#25578: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:12:49 AM

You know, Dragon Ball is one of the few series that can get away with the fights only being interesting because one party is holding back.

Because the characters themselves want it to be more interesting too, so it makes a whole lot more sense that they handicap themselves.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#25579: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:32:47 AM

Every time both Goku and Krilin powered up, the gap between them grew bigger not smaller.

Also if base Goku didn't close the 40 times gap between him and Freeza then Krilin sure as hell didn't catch up to Namek Goku who was also 40 times stronger. And since Krilin is the strongest human...

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25580: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:37:18 AM

Yeah. I'm sick of this discussion.

It all comes back to the same things:

  • Humans Can't Catch Up

  • Toriyama doesn't care to find a way for them to catch up

  • Namek and Frieza set the bar way too high in terms of catching up.

These conversations mean nothing.

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#25581: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:41:53 AM

People just can't seem to be able to let it go and I have no idea why.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25582: Sep 26th 2015 at 8:47:31 AM

One thing I liked about the Afterlife Tournament mini-arc is that it gave us by far the strongest human seen in the series, Olibu, who's probably in Cell's ballpark. Though whether he was that strong in life or if it's simply due to having unlimited energy because he's dead I couldn't say.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#25583: Sep 26th 2015 at 9:17:37 AM

I would say it's because he's had a metric fuckton of time for training, more than anything else.

Wasn't he introduced immediately after he was finished doing a set of one million pushups? Not having to eat or sleep probably helped.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25584: Sep 26th 2015 at 9:46:59 AM

Of course, a later episode blew it by having this same character lose to Yamcha.

Maybe it was a pity dive?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25585: Sep 26th 2015 at 9:48:58 AM

It's filler, it doesn't have to make sense.

Did that filler with Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu beating the Ginyu Force make sense? No, but I found it entertaining.

edited 26th Sep '15 9:49:12 AM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25586: Sep 26th 2015 at 9:50:37 AM

@Doctor People really ought to stop looking at the series' worst parts for inspiration (speaking about Freeza's bit, the training with God is fine but also nowhere close to what humans would need now).

And it's not about "it can't be done". Yes, anything can happen in a story. It's about "it hasn't been done, and there's less reason than ever to think it should be".

There's no precedent or support for it. The humans' training with God didn't catch them up to Goku, it left them even further behind. So that's not even remotely on the same level as a new power up that would cause them to catch up.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25587: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:00:02 AM

In fairness, the humans have always kinda been jobbers, the one major exception being Roshi in the first tournament. And even that was technically a draw. tongue

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#25588: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:03:06 AM

And Ten won the 22nd Budoukai.

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SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#25591: Sep 26th 2015 at 10:59:13 AM

Goku wasn't going to win that tournament anyway, the worst outcome would have been a tie.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25592: Sep 26th 2015 at 11:43:40 AM

He could've won...if only he learned to fly with his tail.

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SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#25593: Sep 26th 2015 at 11:48:34 AM

But he did learn to fly with his tail! That's how he saved himself from getting eliminated at the 21st Budoukai.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25594: Sep 26th 2015 at 12:11:04 PM

It would've saved his bacon in the 22nd though.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#25595: Sep 26th 2015 at 1:36:59 PM

Humans falling behind doesn't really matter to me based on the premise new characters are always being shuffled in and old ones to the back, and that there never was a need to catch up humans when Dragon Ball originally ended.

One of the most powerful beings in existence is Uub. The problem, if there was one, is that Dragon Ball Gt just glosses over that but GT sucks anyway. The Other problem is that Battle Of Gods, Revival Of F and Super have all put off his debut. The other other problem is that Vegeta has gotten three ass pull power boosts when going by precedent it's his time to fall back and let Majin Buu into the spotlight.

Anyway, catching Piccolo up to Super Sayain 2 or three wouldn't have been that difficult. Nail has had his full potential unleashed, the nameless Name has not. Getting him to New Namek might be problematic and would definitely be his last hurrah before being completely surpassed by Goku/Vegeta/Trunks ET all while reviving King Piccolo might seem contrived but it's still a kind of obvious fix.

The problem there is that he doesn't just have 2 and 3 but god and god super to catch up with. Once the gap has hit four transformations why bother? They don't really have to be "relevant" to Goku Vegeta adventures at this point, he and the other weaker but still Earth shattering powerful characters can have their own quick side romps without those two that reveal more about the strange setting Dragon Ball takes place in, which would be infinitely more enjoyable than re watching the events of the last two movies without Champa and Wine to make them different.

So Vegeta is sticking around for the time being, Goten and Trunks may or may not be getting god, Majin Buu may or may not be getting shuffled out of the limelight with them, Pan's also being put off with Uub. That doesn't mean new rivals for Goku still can't be introduced in the meantime. Three sounds about right. Three godly rivals from universe sixseven whatever for Goku to befriend while searching for Dragon Balls and crushing new villains, each with a transformation similar to Super Saiyan 3 and later, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, each also with their own occupation with which to apply their martial art(given god is a job in Dragon Ball) to contrast Goku's eat/sleep/train lifestyle.

Then Goku can fight the god of corrupt corporate executives/mega corps and or be forced into godly Gladiator Games, new rivals coming from what the corporation invests in to destroy him and or whoever else was forced to compete.

Then Uub's training can be interrupted by shape shifting body snatchers who have foreseen an abnormally powerful Earthling child playing a part in halting the expansion of their empire and have so rushed ahead of their disbelieving brethren to possess or kill as many promising children as possible in an attempt to stop it from coming to pass, which in turn leads to Uub and Goku teaming up with a soldier taking part in a hopeless war against the shape shifting body snatchers out hinder any move they make who has an almost reliable way of identifying them.(As a result of said team up, the soldier learns to sense power levels, and more importantly, distinguish power levels, making the enemy much easier to identify and gradually causing the war to turn around)

edited 26th Sep '15 1:46:56 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#25596: Sep 26th 2015 at 1:52:24 PM

What if people don't like the newer characters over the old ones tho?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25597: Sep 26th 2015 at 1:56:44 PM

That's just an unfortunate happening for both sides.

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IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
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#25598: Sep 26th 2015 at 2:46:19 PM

How many times do you hear or read about saiyans becoming so central is bad/annoying? There are already people who don' like the newer characters over the old ones. Personally I'd take Krillen over Gohan, Piccolo Jr over Vegeta. I wouldn't mind seeing more of a Yamcha/Tien rival dynamic.

Gohan was already going to be phased to background in favor of Trunks, Goten, Majin Buu, Uub and possibly his own daughter anyway. The only "new" fighter whose had any exceptional staying power next to Goku is Vegeta and he's not really "new" anymore. It's really his time to step out of the limelight a little. It's not even like a Piccolo who proved physically incapable of catching up despite his hard work or a Gohan who is too soft to work hard. He's been surpassed and his character arc has been taken to it's logical conclusion. He's not only had the fact hard work can surpass initial class designations beaten over his head, he's not only been shown that his training methods are inferior, he's not only sold his soul for power only to fall short, he's gone so far as to admit Goku is just better than him. The logical place to go from there is to show him becoming content with life on Earth with his family...so he goes and surpasses a super saiyan 3 without reaching the level himself despite having been established as weaker in his lower forms and does so in a manor he's never, ever, been hinted at being able to do because said manor only worked for Gohan and maybe Majin Buu. He surpasses not only Gohan by stealing Gohan's gimmick but also Gotenks and Buu, who should be taking his place in the spotlight at this point.

The he gets super saiyan god super saiyan, even though it was established the precursor to it was only possible because of Goku's "genius", something Vegeta has repeatedly admitted he does not have. An unconscious act of genius at that. The only positive I see about Vegeta being able to reach it is that there is no excuse for Goten, Trunks and Pan from not doing so too and since Goten/Trunks were still apprehensive about fighting Majin Buu at the end of the manga, that logically means Buu found a way to keep up as well. And Uub is still going to be awesome.

But in the meantime, that's still leaves a lot of focus for a character who has already completed his character arc and then some. Yes, he can logically start new ones but so can everyone else. Is it so surprising then that you see so, so many posts about how X could be ass pulled back up to Goku/the saiyan's level? Vegeta has gone through two of those in rapid succession, three if you count GT. Dragon Ball was more intriguing when it was the Goku and friends show, rather than the Goku and Vegeta show someone at TOEI seems dead set on seeing it degenerate into. The best way to counteract that is to use plot devices like Universe six/seven to bring in more fighters and force Vegeta to share panel/screen time.

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BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25599: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:26:50 PM

It would've saved his bacon in the 22nd though.

Hm?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25600: Sep 26th 2015 at 4:52:52 PM

I mean Goku would've won...he wasn't gonna die.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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