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BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25476: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:20:53 PM

Goku trained every day of his life to fight whereas Frieza never had a real fight in his life, let alone with someone stronger than him. :P

Still, thanks.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25477: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:23:45 PM

Granted I think saying he was only 20% stronger is understating how big a difference that should be and usually portrayed to be.

edited 24th Sep '15 9:24:09 PM by LSBK

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25478: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:24:55 PM

Yeah, you have a point there.

Like, that shouldn't be much of a difference, but it often is portrayed to be.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25479: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:34:31 PM

Krillin is stronger than all pure-blooded Saiyans bar two, who are literally gods. All throughout Dragon Ball, the Humans kept up with and were consistently a challenge to Goku until the end. Humans are only inferior to Saiyans in three ways: Oozaru, which has such an easy weak point it's barely worth mentioning, Zenkai, which can be made up for with pure training, and Super Saiyan, which sucks but whatever.

In fact, I could make the case that Humans have a significant advantage over Saiyans: better results from training. Goku trains with God for three years, goes from ~230 to ~350, humans train with God for one year, go from ~200 to ~1,500.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#25480: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:39:13 PM

No, Goku was 25% stronger than Frieza.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25481: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:40:30 PM

[up][up]Krillin had his potential unlocked by Guru, which boosted his power from about 1300 to 75000, which is about a 30x increase.

Also, despite Goku trying his hardest as a kid, he's held back by the fact that his body isn't designed for the relatively light gravity of earth, and therefore had atrophied muscles. That's why when Raditz appeared, he was over 4 times as strong as Goku, despite having trained less.

edited 24th Sep '15 9:41:17 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#25482: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:41:48 PM

[up][up]I'm terrible with percentages, I keep going back and forth.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25483: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:45:11 PM

There is no way that Krillin's Power Level at the beginning of Namek was only 1,300 when his Power Level during the Saiyan Arc was 1,770. He was at 2,000 AT LEAST.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25484: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:47:19 PM

And that changes.....?

We get it, you love the human characters and love to embellish them as much as you can (hence your avatar)

But you're not always right. And you're definitely not right about humans having more potential than Saiyans. Because if they did, Tien would be stronger than Cell at this point, because he does nothing but eat, sleep, and train. :P

Also, the beginning of the Namek saga was only a week after the Saiyan saga, so Krillin's power level wouldn't have gone up much, if at all.

edited 24th Sep '15 9:48:02 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25485: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:52:59 PM

One of this series' main themes is that training > genes. That strong genes can NEVER surpass hard work on their own, and you're trying to tell me that the Humans are just naturally weaker than everyone else just because they're Human? BULL. SHIT. I don't accept it. It would betray a major theme of the series and the only excuse they need to catch up is that they exist in a shounen anime.

[up]It was at least a month as Bulma had to learn Namekian and fix up the ship.

edited 24th Sep '15 9:55:19 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25486: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:55:57 PM

Didn't that theme only apply to Goku?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25487: Sep 24th 2015 at 9:56:27 PM

[up][up]That might be the theme of Dragon Ball, but that's really not the theme of Dragon Ball Z.

Goten and Trunks are stronger than Tien as 7 and 8 year olds, respectively, because they're half-Saiyans and are the sons of Goku and Vegeta.

Again, Tien does nothing but train, yet he's still weaker than Krillin, who hasn't trained since the Cell Saga.

It may be hard to accept, but in Dragon Ball Z, humans suck compared to pretty much everyone.

[up]Yeah, that might have been more of the theme of Goku than the theme of Dragon Ball, now that I think about it.

edited 24th Sep '15 9:57:09 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25488: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:00:52 PM

It can't just be a theme for Goku, because that would make him special, which contradicts the entire point of the theme.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25489: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:05:32 PM

Unfortunately it is.

I agree with you that it sucks for the humans though, but that's how it is now.

None of them ever meet Old Kai, and Guru is dead so there's no power-up for them.

Even if they could get one, the Saiyans, Piccolo, and 17 and 18 are so far above them that there's no chance of them ever catching up, and every single enemy who shows up is in the same tier as that bunch.

Again, it sucks, but that's how Toriyama made things.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25490: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:06:10 PM

[up][up]Except Goku is special.

Goku at this point is one of the one and a half people who matter at this point in the series.

Everyone not named Goku has been mattering less and less as the franchise has gone on.

He might not be special just because he exists, but he's special because of who he is.

[up]Exactly.

PMC, you're wrong, and I'm quite sad that you're wrong.

I wish you were right in this case.

edited 24th Sep '15 10:07:15 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#25491: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:08:11 PM

You're wrong, and I'm quite sad that you're wrong. I wish you were right in this case.

Is that last part directed at me or Pushover?

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25492: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:08:58 PM

The humans will matter in my movies at least.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25493: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:09:26 PM

[up][up]I clarified.

I'm quite sad that PMC is wrong in this case, but the sad fact is that he's wrong about humans.

[up]Uh huh.

But you're not Toriyama.

edited 24th Sep '15 10:10:16 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25494: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:10:42 PM

[up][up]That'd be quite alright, as long as you "don't" force it.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#25495: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:12:07 PM

One of this series' main themes is that training > genes. That strong genes can NEVER surpass hard work on their own, and you're trying to tell me that the Humans are just naturally weaker than everyone else just because they're Human? BULL. SHIT. I don't accept it. It would betray a major theme of the series and the only excuse they need to catch up is that they exist in a shounen anime.

Except for every major villain past Vegeta, who never trained a day in their life yet were more powerful than ever single human in the story every managed to get. Combined. Even Piccolo never really caught up with Cell, did he?

So much for your major themes.

It can't just be a theme for Goku, because that would make him special, which contradicts the entire point of the theme.

"It can't just be Goku, because that would defeat my argument."

But in a way you're right. I mean, the other saiyans can also sort of keep up with him! None of those filthy dirty humans ever do though.

edited 24th Sep '15 10:12:30 PM by Arha

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25496: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:12:30 PM

When I make the movies and I collaborate with Akira, making the human relevant will be the main thing I will not bend on. I plan to just have them keep up through training and Kaio-Ken.

edited 24th Sep '15 10:13:42 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#25497: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:13:22 PM

You... Yeah, sure, okay. Good luck, have fun!

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25498: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:14:50 PM

[up]You doubt me, but I have vast, in-depth, plans.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#25499: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:16:40 PM

Okay, sure.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25500: Sep 24th 2015 at 10:18:30 PM

This isn't the first time I've mentioned this, I don't know why you guys are reacting the way you are.


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