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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25351: Sep 21st 2015 at 9:39:27 PM

[up][up]This too.

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#25352: Sep 21st 2015 at 11:45:39 PM

I admit, I laughed at the latest Super Manga. "Well, we gathered the Namekian Dragonballs anyway, might as well use them for something." Oh Kaiohshin...

And man, the PTO plot rears its head. I really hope that the series would explore the time between the Battle of the Gods plot and Resurrection F (9+ months, enough for Pan to be born, after all) though, before we get back to Frieza getting revived.

edited 21st Sep '15 11:46:22 PM by MyssaRei

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25353: Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:08:55 AM

Name an instance in which any non-Saiyan tanked a non-Ki based attack from someone they didn't even know was present. All examples otherwise come from Saiyans tanking things they can logically tank without Ki, or tanking an attack from someone present whom they were aware of.

Freeza at 50% was kicked far away by Piccolo and, while he wasn't hurt, Piccolo wasn't using a laser gun.

Piccolo's kick should be far stronger than a laser gun, considering that they are meant as substitutes for those too weak to rely on their own ki attacks, and Appule at somewhere around 3,000 is too strong to use one. So going off the logic of Sorbet vs Goku, Piccolo would have torn off Freeza's head.

Unless Sorbet's laser gun is completely different to the ones seen in the series, it shouldn't be strong enough to hurt Goku. There's no evidence that it is different, and Freeza specifically calls it a "weak laser" so the Fan Wank about it being some super weapon doesn't work to explain it either.

Why did you say only to use non-ki attacks? Examples of tanking ki attacks can definitely be used, because they'd show the characters would most likely tank a laser.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25354: Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:21:12 AM

Lasers are completely different from Ki blasts. Ki is biological energy that comes from the body and can be projected outward in the form of an attack. A L.A.S.E.R is a beam of excited electrons, compressed into a focused beam of light. Absolutely no reason to assume they would have similar properties.

edited 22nd Sep '15 3:23:34 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25355: Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:30:56 AM

Yes there is, that being that the entire point of the guns is to work as substitutes for ki beams and we see that they don't work anything like a real world laser would. Instead, they resemble ki beams.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#25356: Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:35:23 AM

When was the last time Goku struggled?

How about that fight with Majin Buu, in which he and Vegeta got their asses thoroughly kicked, and only won because of a last ditch effort through the Spirit Bomb?

Yes, it's true that even if they'd lost Majin Buu would've been promptly killed by Gohan, but it doesn't change the fact that they did struggle to win that fight.

Or how about the fight with Vegeta, in which Goku fought evenly with him. Yes, he had SSJ 3, but that would've shortened his time on Earth considerably, which was not a good thing considering the situation.

Or how about the fight with Cell, in which Goku gave it everything he had and still lost?

Or how about the fight with Android 19, in which Goku fought while having chest pains and when it overwhelmed him he got his ass thoroughly kicked?

Or how about the fight with Freeza, which Goku spent getting his ass kicked all over Namek, trying everything in his arsenal, and he only won because he unlocked a racial powerup only after he'd seen his best friend be killed, another friend seemingly die to save his life and his son being threatened as well.

Or how about that fight with Vegeta, in which Goku got every bone in his body broken?

The idea that Goku doesn't struggle to win his fights is laughable, and absolutely wrong.

[up]Case in point: Actual combat grade laser? Invisible. Also it doesn't pierce things. It sets them on fire.

edited 22nd Sep '15 3:36:15 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#25357: Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:59:19 AM

[up]That could've been a slightly longer list(including everything), but understandably a bigger time waster than necessary.

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#25358: Sep 22nd 2015 at 4:17:28 AM

I don't think I need to list the Dragon Ball major fights, all of which Goku struggled to win, because usually people begin to think that Goku doesn't struggle to win because of the Saiyan thing.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#25359: Sep 22nd 2015 at 5:16:42 PM

Hey, who wants to have this lovely discussion again.

DB Time Travel works on multiverse theory - every time you travel back, you enter an alternate reality. Bulma's time machine, in that case, must have the ability to lock on and return to any timeline, since Trunks's plan was to come back the day the Androids attacked (and he was clearly able to return to his timeline). So. Timeline A, the Crapsack World, and B, Trunks' objective.

Timeline A: Androids attack, Goku dies from the virus, Trunks goes back in time to warn them. After killing Frieza and Cold, Trunks returns to his timeline to deactivate the androids with a switch from Timeline B.

Timeline B: Trunks from Timeline A arrives and kills Cold and Frieza, warns the Z-Fighters, everything goes as planned. Trunks returns to Timeline A, and returns to this one three years later - the Z-Fighters defeat the Androids, and Trunks returns to Timeline A with a switch to deactivate the Androids.

So in Timeline A, Trunks deactivates the Androids and the day is saved... until Cell kills him. Cell takes the Time Machine, hotwires the thing to go exactly where he wants. Now assuming he didn't figure out the machine worked on multiverse theory, he set it so that could go back and find the Androids. That was his objective.

Every Dragonball guide I can find says that Cell creates a third timeline here, Timeline C. But this doesn't make sense, Cell shouldn't have known or been able to create Timeline C, why didn't he just go straight to Timeline B?

Timeline C: Cell arrives from Timeline A, Goku doesn't die from the virus, the events of the Android and Cell Saga take place, Cell is defeated, Trunks goes home.

Cell should have gone to Timeline B, before Trunks arrived, the Trunks from Timeline A. In timelines A and B, Trunks' fate would be sealed - he would come back to Timeline B, before Cell attacked him in Timeline A, gotten the switch, and would've come back to Timeline A - in which Cell would've killed him, and gone back to Timeline B.

Even if I accept Timeline C, Trunks would/should still go back to Timeline A (or D) and be killed by Cell, but rather, he stays and Cell stays and the best, most convoluted Dragonball story arc ever goes down, confusing generations of fans to come.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#25360: Sep 22nd 2015 at 5:27:40 PM

[up]

Then you add in Xenoverse to ALL of this, and it's definitely a headache to unravel. XD

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#25361: Sep 22nd 2015 at 5:35:46 PM

... How? Xenoverse doesn't really complicate it. After all, it's explained that the Supreme Kai of Time is capable of time travel that does not fuck with the timelines like Bulma's time machine does. It doesn't make it any more complicated.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25363: Sep 22nd 2015 at 5:56:56 PM

I never understood why Semi-Perfect Cell was the only form of Cell that didn't have wings. Obviously the wings never actually mattered but it seems odd to me from a design standpoint and Semi-Cell would, in my opinion, look better with wings.

edited 22nd Sep '15 5:57:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#25364: Sep 22nd 2015 at 7:03:24 PM

@Soble: Cell arrived on something that looked like timeline B, but his actions prevented it from coming to pass, effectively creating the timeline C. Essentially, in order for Cell to go back in time, timelines A and B need to be set in stone.

Timeline A: Ruined future. Trunks goes back to kill Freeza, then to help with the Androids. Comes back with a remote in hand and shuts his Androids off. Cell then kills him and skedaddles.

Timeline B: Trunks kills Freeza and warns people. The gang fights the Androids and eventually defeats them. Trunks helped, and goes back to timeline A with a remote in hand.

Timeline C: Trunks kills Freeza and warns people. The gang fights the Androids and is eventually interrupted by Cell. Stuff happens as they did in the series, and Trunks goes back to A, except he's got an awesome power level instead of a remote.

Timeline D: Ruined future. Trunks goes back to kill Freeza, then to help with the Androids. Comes back with an awesome power level and defeats his Androids, and eventually his Cell.

So, Trunks-A created timeline B by messing with the timestream, Cell-A created timeline C by messing with it again, and Trunks-existing-on-B suddenly becoming Trunks-existing-on-C caused timeline D to be created (if Cell had won, timeline D would be Trunks simply not coming back at all).

edited 22nd Sep '15 7:07:08 PM by JonnasN

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#25365: Sep 22nd 2015 at 8:44:35 PM

"Western" Dr. Gero looks neat.

Though now he looks even more like Revolver Ocelot.

edited 22nd Sep '15 8:45:07 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25366: Sep 22nd 2015 at 8:50:36 PM

In light of Supreme Kai and Kibito defusing due to the Dragon Balls, here's a question that's always bugged me: How exactly does the "No wishes that exceed the power of the creator" clause work? The Dragons can't kill anyone stronger than their creator, or for some reason remove cybernetics from someone stronger than their creator, but they can revive people stronger than the creator, revive people killed by people stronger than the creator, and now apparently de-fuse people stronger than the creator.

Doesn't this all seem a bit arbitrary?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25367: Sep 22nd 2015 at 8:53:29 PM

Shenlong would need permission to kill someone stronger than Dende and he can't take out the Android's bio-mechanical enhancements because dammit Jim, he's a Wish Dragon, not an engineer!

edited 22nd Sep '15 8:54:08 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#25368: Sep 22nd 2015 at 8:55:08 PM

[up][up][up]Is it me or does Western Vegeta look like Zuko?

My various fanfics.
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#25369: Sep 22nd 2015 at 10:30:58 PM

[up][up][up] Reviving someone is as easy as restoring a spark. The rest of the ki comes back naturally. For killing someone, the dragon would have to work past all that ki already in place to attack the ticker. As for de-fusing, the two fused characters may be strong, but the magic holding them together may be comparatively weak.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#25370: Sep 22nd 2015 at 10:50:37 PM

Apparently there are in-game cutscenes in Dragon Ball Heroes now? (At 3:03 and 7:20)

I'm not sure, but it looks like Towa might have died. Dabura seems distraught by the ordeal.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25371: Sep 23rd 2015 at 12:20:23 AM

Seriously though, what was the actual reason for not including Dabura in Xenoverse when his damn sister is one of the main villains?

edited 23rd Sep '15 12:21:03 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#25372: Sep 23rd 2015 at 3:20:28 AM

Because the game was planned by monkeys.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#25373: Sep 23rd 2015 at 3:27:12 AM

SAIYANS ARE REAL?!?!

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#25374: Sep 23rd 2015 at 5:41:14 AM

Cell arrived on something that looked like timeline B, but his actions prevented it from coming to pass, effectively creating the timeline C

While I appreciate the detailed response, the event I'm still missing here is what exactly Cell did, besides eating Gingertown and leaving a time machine behind. None of this should've affected Trunks simply returning to Timeline B (or C) and grabbing the switch. That was due to the Androids being stronger, something Cell shouldn't have affected.

edited 23rd Sep '15 5:44:45 AM by Soble

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#25375: Sep 23rd 2015 at 7:10:41 AM

It's this.

Shenlong would need permission to kill someone stronger than Dende and he can't take out the Android's bio-mechanical enhancements because dammit Jim, he's a Wish Dragon, not an engineer!

Shenron's inability to remove 17 and 18's cybernetics is a matter of technical prowess.

When it comes to affecting people more powerful than him, Shenron can still do whatever is wished but only if he has consent. He can't kill anyone more powerful than him because they would have to consent to dying.

We also saw this in action when Goku refused the wish to teleport him to Earth after defeating Frieza.

edited 23rd Sep '15 7:11:10 AM by TobiasDrake

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