Incidentally, GT and power levels discussion together.
I am in agony.
...Still sorta think the implication that Vegeta needed that kind of help to reach Super Saiyan 3 was kinda messed up. Character-wise.
*Hits I Am Not Creative Enough with a Resurrection 'F' Blu Ray*
I mean, in GT, Gohan went Super Saiyan a few times without things exploding, and Gohan's contributions to fights tended to be on the level of "fuck all".
I think it says less about the character of Baby and more about the writers.
I mean, if we're going to play the game of proposing something different from what the writers say about their series because an alternative interpretation makes more sense or is more entertaining, then, by all means. That's always what I've encouraged.
But when I do that I try to be very clear about it.
edited 23rd Jun '15 11:53:03 PM by unnoun
Gohan has a long history of not just releasing all his power and ending a fight as quickly as he can.
The Omega Shenron fight reveals that he still has the Ultimate Gohan 'form'. Baby just didn't know that the power was there, and so he went for Vegeta instead. Vegeta's strength is readily apparent, Gohan's is not.
Super Baby Vegeta was not SSJ 3. His hair is short. The reason he doesn't have eyebrows in that form is because Baby has no eyebrows, and if you haven't noticed, Vegeta was looking more and more like Baby the longer Baby stayed in his body.
Furthermore, Vegeta does not have the power he had in Resurrection F in DBGT. Vegeta is still weaker than Gohan in DBGT until he gets his own SSJ 4 form.
edited 23rd Jun '15 11:54:54 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariExcept GT Perfect Files, brought to us by the wonderful minds behind GT, said that Super Baby Vegeta 2 was a Super Saiyan 3.
Now, is that dumb? Absolutely.
Do I prefer your version? Sure, why not.
But you're acting like what you're saying is the definitive thing, actually intended by the series and. It's sorta not.
Trying to help here man. When you're ready to rebel against intent, okay. I'm here for you.
My point had more to do with Gohan being taken out by a first form Frieza with a power level of a million, and Piccolo being taken out by a villain on the level of Zarbon and Dodoria.
Making sense does not seem to be a priority when characters get sidelined.
edited 24th Jun '15 12:02:21 AM by unnoun
...oh, god, power levels. What even are they anymore?
I hope Super has a bit more consistency. A series tends to be. Movies are based around cool moments, regardless of whether they made sense or not.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!My power level is 11 billion.
But oh man I'm glad I know about this before I go to see it in theatres. Whenever they decide to air it in theatres here in Australia.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!I'm calling them as I see them. If it looks like a spade, walks talks and acts like a spade, then to me, it is a spade. Even if a spade shouldn't talk, walk or have a personality to be 'like' a spade.
If the side materials claim it's a duck, then I'll just call them fucking stupid and move on. Yes, it is 'canon'. It's still stupid, and I don't care for it.
DBGT Perfect Files could claim that Goku doesn't look like he fused with the Pink Panther when he's using SSJ 4. At which point it's just lying to me.
You seem to think that the whole 'acknowledging it as canon' is a binary thing, like, either you accept it and don't ever deviate or you don't and don't ever even acknowledge it's a thing that exists. This isn't so. You can acknowledge it as canon and ignore it because it's fucking stupid.
Like the one I like to bring up a lot, the bit about Toriyama claiming Mr. Satan is a coward.
That guy has the biggest balls in the series.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
...Oh we are going to get along just fine.
I don't try to ignore things, actually. Just try to challenge their absolutism.
Overall though. I mean, I acknowledge that things exist.
edited 24th Jun '15 12:35:05 AM by unnoun
Oh god, here we go.
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Except he totally is. Yeah, he did some incredibly brave things two or three times but those just stand out among the countless times were he just cowered behind others. For example, if Satan knew about the Saiyans coming and didn't dismiss their powers, there's no way he'd train to try and fight them. He'd get as far away from them as he possibly could. He initially only challenged Cell and Majin Buu because he thought Cell was a faker just using smoke and mirrors while he thought he could defeat Buu with a bomb.
Deny it all you want, Mr. Satan is a coward. It's just that, when he shines, he's possibly more brilliant than the main cast.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!You know what courage is?
Bravery in the face of fear.
The Z fighters aren't afraid. They're willing to lay down their lives. They know what they're doing, why they're doing it, and they know that even if they die they can still come back.
Mr. Satan is afraid. He's terrified he might die. He's terrified he's gonna leave Videl behind. He's terrified he's gonna be outed as a fraud and leave Videl with nothing to ensure her future. He is terrified because he knows that what he's doing is suicidal in several different levels.
And when the chips are down...
This is the man who went to confront Cell, despite knowing Cell was a terrifying monster of unimaginable power. This is the man who went to confront Majin Buu despite knowing Buu was even worse. And he did those things while being terrified to the point he couldn't even release his bowels in fear.
Mr. Satan is a man who fears a lot of things, and for very justified reasons.
This doesn't make him a coward.
This makes him a motherfucking hero.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari![]()
Except he thought he could actually defeat Cell and Buu. And soon as he realized he couldn't defeat then, he immediately stopped fighting them and either constantly fakes a stomach ache or becomes their servant.
Meanwhile, when Goku realizes he can't defeat someone, he'll openly admit it. Goku will admit to his own weakness which, guess what, takes courage. Mr. Satan, meanwhile, will almost never admit his own weakness to anybody and will instead make excuses. Do keep in mind that he also did this when encountering an opponent who was stronger than him in some way during the Tenkaichi Budoukai he won, if I recall correctly.
Deny it all you want but Mr. Satan is absolutely a coward. He may display bravery every now and then but that doesn't change it. You can be brave during certain moments while still largely being a coward.
I might not call him the best but he's certainly amazing.
edited 24th Jun '15 1:05:48 AM by Zelenal
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!I would like for you to show me a scene of Mr. Satan running away from Cell.
Or Majin Buu.
And no, not a scene of him not going up to fight an opponent he knows he can't do shit against.
I mean him running instead of sticking around and seeing the whole shebang through to the end, even though he's scared shitless.
And now tell me if you would have the balls to stick around a battlefield that has Cell in it.
I know I wouldn't. I would engage the FEAR protocol. Fuck Everything And Run.
That man stayed. That man kept up his bravado and an illusion of calm to keep the population of the world from panicking.
I'd also like to remind you that this happened:
That's motherfucking Pure Buu he just punched in the face, insulted and overall called the attention of.
You cannot call a man who would punch that thing in the face a coward. Yes, he's scared shitless.
But a coward does not confront the thing he's afraid of. A coward is not courageous.
Being afraid doesn't make you a coward.
edited 24th Jun '15 1:37:05 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariWhen I was a kid, I heard "Baby Vegeta" many times before seeing Dragon Ball GT, and was always confused by why Vegeta apparently had so much power during his infancy.
EDIT: Also, put me down for the "Mr. Satan is the best guy" camp too, for all the reasons already explained by IANCE, as well as the fact that he gave Goku all his earnings for saving the world from Majin Buu on his own initiative, out of the goodness of his heart in Dragon Ball Super.
There is no man with a heart so big or a courage so great as Mr. Satan, the man who knows that he could be killed with less effort than swatting a fly, has no knowledge of the ability to return from the grave, and does not allow it to deter him from doing what he must.
edited 24th Jun '15 8:16:02 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Weren't both Gohan and Goten at the time just using SSJ and no more?
It seems the writers had completely forgotten about Ultimate Gohan. Which they remembered by the time of Omega Shenron.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
That... that's pretty stupid. As far as I can tell, fusion does not work that way.

There was also a thing where, because Goku was in a tiny child's body, said body couldn't handle the power output needed for some of his forms, which is why he was only Super Saiyan 3 for all of two minutes.
My various fanfics.