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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#19701: Jun 23rd 2015 at 8:29:05 PM

We don't really know. Super Saiyan 4 is a x4000 base form multiplier but it's unknown how much the base form is multiplied by Super Saiyan God. We don't even know how strong Saiyan Beyond God is because it's literally absorbing the SSG power into a new base state.

edited 23rd Jun '15 8:30:37 PM by VeryMelon

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19702: Jun 23rd 2015 at 8:33:42 PM

I still don't think Super Saiyan God is strictly speaking a multiplier.

I know that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan can't be 50 times Super Saiyan God, because then Goku would be more than ten times as strong as Whis and Beerus combined. And Resurrection F makes it clear that this is not the case.

What would make more sense is if Super Saiyan God is some distinct form of Godly Ki, and Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan involve drawing on more of it.

Super Saiyan God equals x.

Saiyan Beyond God equals Base plus some part of x.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan equals (base times 50) plus x.

edited 23rd Jun '15 8:39:29 PM by unnoun

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#19703: Jun 23rd 2015 at 8:38:37 PM

[up][up] Super Saiyan 4 being a 4,000x multiplier is just speculation based on the Kamehameha x10 being 10 times stronger than the Super Kamehameha. We don't actually know how strong SSJ4 is.

That being said, my money's on SSGSS being far stronger.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#19704: Jun 23rd 2015 at 8:44:10 PM

SSGSS might just be SSG that can be triggered on command without a complicated ritual and without a time limit. So, not more powerful, just more convenient.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#19705: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:05:46 PM

By the way, since that interview stated that Gero's tech was the only reason Commander Red was really on the map, you think Gero knew Red only wanted to be taller?

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19706: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:07:21 PM

Red's second in command didn't know that until five minutes before Red died.

I really don't understand why people think it was common knowledge within the organization.

I mean, presumably Red was confident that he could conquer the world using his army, but felt that being taller would make him more imposing as a world ruler.

It sorta makes sense.

edited 23rd Jun '15 9:08:55 PM by unnoun

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#19707: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:08:20 PM

Probably not. Otherwise he'd probably have just said "Here's a pair of high-tech stilts that fuse to your soles. That'll be five hundred million Zeni."

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19708: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:09:35 PM

We won't know how strong Super Saiyan 4 is until Tarble first goes Super Saiyan, then goes Oozaru while Super Saiyan, then looks at the full earth while Super Saiyan Oozaru.

Since, he's actually the only character in the whole series who could logically do it......

Unless there really are some other survivors of the destruction of Planet Vegeta.

I mean, Vegeta never mentioned Tarble all this time (though he may have assumed the latter died years ago), but there might be others like Tarble out there, doing their own shit.

Soon, Turles, Paragus and Broli will show up in series.

The latter will die in half a second, because people are sick of Broli.tongue

[up]

Not sure why Red thought height was needed. I mean, Napoleon was a little dude, and he still kicked every ass in the vicinity.

Red already had the power to rule the world, so he should have just done it.

edited 23rd Jun '15 9:11:22 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#19709: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:11:52 PM

Here's the scene in question.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19710: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:17:21 PM

Yes. I know.

It was not exactly something Red put on the recruitment posters or discussed in meetings.

It irritates me a little when it keeps being brought up. *glares at Tobias*

edited 23rd Jun '15 9:18:06 PM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19711: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:21:31 PM

Red should't have kept his monologue internal.

I kinda feel sorry for him though. So close to such a simple wish, only to botch it at the last moment.

Speaking of botching it at the last moment, Black also made a mistake.

He kept trying to fight Goku. It would have been much smarter to surrender right then and there, and come back with a new plan. The kid fought his way through an army single handedly. And Black had already fought him hand to hand. He should have realized he wasn't going to win a fight with him.

Better to bow out gracefully and figure out something new.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#19712: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:23:16 PM

"and my eyes shall tower over the heavens"

Uh, dude, I hate to tell you this, but you pluralized a word you shouldn't have pluralized.

Hint: It's not "heavens".

edited 23rd Jun '15 9:31:18 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#19713: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:23:30 PM

After looking it up, I'm really disappointed there wasn't a proper introduction between Jaco and Goku in Resurrection F. It would have been hilarious. Bulma would be like "Jaco? This is Goku. This is the Saiyan you were supposed to destroy as a child."

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#19714: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:25:25 PM

[up]x6 Napoleon actually wasn't that short for the time and place he was born. He's only short by modern standards and may be considered such because his royal guard were all taller than he was for some reason.

edited 23rd Jun '15 9:25:42 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#19715: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:27:58 PM

[up]

Oh.

Well, the point is, he was arguable so caught up on his height, that he failed to realize he could have likely ruled the world without the Dragonballs.

He was pretty.....

~Puts on shades~

short sighted!cool

One Strip! One Strip!
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#19716: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:35:46 PM

Actually, it's based on oozaru being a 10x increased and Super Saiyan 3 being a 400x increased. 10x400=4000x boost.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#19717: Jun 23rd 2015 at 9:48:48 PM

I've heard both reasonings. Regardless, it's based on pure theory since we have no actual number.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#19718: Jun 23rd 2015 at 10:48:59 PM

I always liked the idea that SSJ 4 was a 500X boost. Combining the 10X boost of the Oozaru and the 50X boost of Super Saiyan. I know it's nowhere near strong enough, especially compared to SSJ 3, but I always thought it would have made more sense.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#19719: Jun 23rd 2015 at 10:57:14 PM

We know that, at the very least, it is >x400. x4000 is a very logical figure given the circumstances.

But it's also a figure that I don't think is quite right.

IIRC, SSJ 4 Goku was still stronger than Super Oozaru Baby Vegeta, who was at least ten times stronger than Super Baby Vegeta, who was stronger than 400 * Goku's base.

So, yeah. SSJ 4 is even more than SSJ 3 * 10.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#19720: Jun 23rd 2015 at 10:58:57 PM

Super Saiyan 4 Goku was actually weaker than Gold Oozaru Baby. Or at least on par. Goku put up a good fight but really didn't kick his ass until the others lent him their energy.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19721: Jun 23rd 2015 at 11:06:40 PM

Super Baby Vegeta 2 was a Super Saiyan 3, so Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta was 10 times that.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#19722: Jun 23rd 2015 at 11:20:07 PM

Did he? I seem to remember them being pretty much on par through the whole fight but Goku being very clearly superior based on the fact that he actually knew how to use all of that power he had.

[up]Super Baby Vegeta was most likely not even using the Super Saiyan forms. Remember: Baby has no actual idea of how to use Vegeta's body properly, and it's implied that if it'd been Vegeta on the driver's seat with all that power, he would've put up a much better fight.

edited 23rd Jun '15 11:21:24 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#19723: Jun 23rd 2015 at 11:22:05 PM

Goku starts out strong but then Baby begins landing hits and utterly brutalizing him with them.

Then Goku gets a powerup from his allies and destroys him.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#19724: Jun 23rd 2015 at 11:25:16 PM

I can't remember that fight very well. It's been a while since I saw GT, and I could simply be misremembering, but I do believe I recall Goku being mostly in control until Baby got a powerup or something.

And also that for some reason Baby had delayed reaction to a Super Kamehameha he was hit by.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#19725: Jun 23rd 2015 at 11:34:05 PM

Super Baby Vegeta was most likely not even using the Super Saiyan forms. Remember: Baby has no actual idea of how to use Vegeta's body properly, and it's implied that if it'd been Vegeta on the driver's seat with all that power, he would've put up a much better fight.

Baby was a Super Saiyan when possessing Goten earlier, so no.

And the guidebook thingy for GT specifically said that Super Baby Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2, and Super Baby Vegeta 2 was a Super Saiyan 3. Because no eyebrows.


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