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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#18976: Jun 13th 2015 at 8:39:00 AM

He never got a zenkai from being blasted in half, I don't think that'd do it unless he literally exploded to his nucleus from it.

Seems super risky either way.

So instead of an advantage, Cell's regen is a disadvantage so far as zenkai is concerned? He's TOO hard to kill to be able to reliably spam zenkais like Goku and Vegeta did, because the window between "perfectly fine" and "dead" is miniscule?

That makes sense.

You know, Roshi's training and philosophy explain a lot about Goku's personality come Z. Some of it is just Goku but he and Krillin are still following Roshi's teachings even by the end.

Quite. People give Kame-sennin's training crap for the fact that Goku didn't come away with any wicked cool attacks, but everything between his training and the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai formed the backbone of Goku's philosophy and worldview as a martial artist.

Much of the same is true of Karin; people remember his training for the power boost it gave Goku but ignore the practical skills he taught him.

edited 13th Jun '15 8:43:08 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18977: Jun 13th 2015 at 10:56:03 AM

What people forget about Master Roshi is that he isn't just their Martial Arts teacher and he isn't just a pervert who goofs off all the time.

This is why you get expies of him that just don't work the way he does.

For the most part, the average 'perverted master' focuses on the 'pervert' part and leaves out the 'master' part. Even Dragon Ball itself is guilty of this after Roshi became unnecessary for the heroes. Master Roshi has a lot of Martial Arts masters that draw direct inspiration from him. The 'Perverted Old Guy Who's Actually Kickass' is a trope that he made popular, but... they just don't measure up.

For the most part, they hit the right notes. Because it's not hard to do a basic perverted teacher archetype.

What's the difference?

To start with, Roshi did the training along with Goku and Krillin. He didn't go away to goof off somewhere. He didn't just follow them and supervise. He showed them how to do it by example, and he stuck around doing it with them. He also didn't just teach them martial arts. He taught them basic survival skills, not just in the wild but in society, since we know he is the one who taught Goku how to count and how to do math.

Despite the fact that later on he's a pervert with no redeeming qualities otherwise, at the start of the series, Master Roshi is their Master and, for all intents and purposes, their tutor, teacher and adoptive parent.

Hell, he gives Krillin a place to call home, long after Krillin became an adult able to stand on his own two feet and goes out of his way to convince Tenshinhan that his way of doing things is not the right one, not through beating the shit out of him, but by showing him an example of the right way.

Put simply: Despite his flaws, Master Roshi is an excellent teacher who goes above and beyond what his position calls for because he actually gives a crap about his students.

That's not usually the case with his expies, though. I'm looking at you, Jiraiya.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18978: Jun 13th 2015 at 11:01:06 AM

Dragon Ball is better than all of its followers. It's like an inverse "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny. Who knew?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18979: Jun 13th 2015 at 11:06:44 AM

Actually, it doesn't really invert "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny or anything. In fact, Dragon Ball suffers from it a lot. Yes, I've seen people call Super Saiyans a ripoff of Super Sonic and I've even heard people call Goku a ripoff of Naruto. Granted, it was kids who probably didn't know any better, but the new generations aren't born knowing that Dragon Ball predates those.

It's just that when people try to do the same things DB did, they just don't do it as well as DB did, either because they can't or because they don't know why the things DB did worked. Like Roshi. People know that a 'pervert teacher' works, but they don't know why Master Roshi worked as well as he did, which is why you get teachers who hit the 'pervert' notes, but don't come even close to matching Roshi's teacher cred.

At least Happosai was intentionally a very shitty master.

edited 13th Jun '15 11:06:53 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18980: Jun 13th 2015 at 11:11:51 AM

If someone called Goku a ripoff of Naruto in my presence, I'm not sure if I'd laugh, cry, or strangle them. Possibly all three at once.

Either way, Dragon Ball is better than it's followers. Who knew?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18981: Jun 13th 2015 at 11:12:58 AM

Clearly, we exist in the Nasuverse, where the first is the greatest and all its followers are merely inferior copies.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#18982: Jun 13th 2015 at 3:17:13 PM

I think it's because a lot of people don't even bother to read or watch Dragon Ball. They just start watching from Majunior and assume they know everything about it from there.

edited 13th Jun '15 4:26:58 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#18983: Jun 13th 2015 at 6:52:48 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...

DRAGON BALL SUPER!!!

Personal thoughts:

  • Animation is fine. Not great, but good.
  • Snippet of theme sounded good.
  • Beerus is awake, so this is clearly after ROF. But considering that Goten and Trunks are still kids, Super seems to take place practically a few weeks, if not days, after ROF.

Either way, I'm pumped. I never thought a new DB series would happen. At least in my lifetime. I can't wait for July 5th. The hype begins. cool

edited 13th Jun '15 6:53:32 PM by FireShadow

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18985: Jun 13th 2015 at 6:59:37 PM

First thoughts:

  • Goku has a new casual outfit! It looks nice. I love seeing him in anything other than the orange costume.
  • He can still become a regular Super Saiyan? Interesting...
  • Trunks new outfit is nice, like seeing Goten's first outfit return... really not happy that they're still being portrayed as small kids. By now, I'm expecting some growth.
  • Gohan appears to have Ultimate eyes.[lol] let the flip flops begin.
  • Yay, Boo and Satan will appear. So will Beerus and Whis.

edited 13th Jun '15 6:59:55 PM by Saiga

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#18986: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:03:40 PM

Yay, people who aren't Goku and Vegeta doing stuff!

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#18987: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:05:42 PM

I hope we get to see more of Gohan and Videl's love life.

...

I-I mean, I hope Videl gets to kick some ass this time around! She's still a public superhero after all.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18988: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:06:28 PM

[up][up] Bit early to call that. Goten and Trunks fight a dinosaur at some point, whoop de do.

[up] Since that was an anime/movie addition, it will probably never be brought up again. Unfortunately.

edited 13th Jun '15 7:06:59 PM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18989: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:08:44 PM

So was Yo!Son Goku and Friends Return, I thought.

Like, I could have sworn it was specifically an anime-only thing, to get the voice cast together, and Toriyama didn't have much to do with it.

edited 13th Jun '15 7:11:34 PM by unnoun

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#18990: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:10:42 PM

Was Tarble brought up again in BOG?

[up][up] So did Videl exist in the manga then? How did they convey Gohan's relationship with her if the Videl arc didn't happen?

edited 13th Jun '15 7:11:43 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18992: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:11:34 PM

That's sort of a weird one, because it did get a manga adaptation that came after. Toriyama actually oversaw that, and praised it (while saying the anime version was weak in some areas).

I should have specified, Videl's Saiyaman 2 shtick was from the original anime and movies. Toriyama apparently didn't watch those, and they're old enough that they're probably not being referenced again. Since he's doing the plot.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#18993: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:14:27 PM

Oh, well I didn't mean that, I thought she was already doing the superhero'ing before the Great Saiyaman arrived.

Ah, if this is after BOG and ROF, then Pan's probably been born... meaning Videl has a reason to be Put on a Bus.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#18994: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:16:13 PM

The most important part is clearly King Kai driving a car. Driving cars is what Dragon Ball is all about.

I have a message from another time...
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#18995: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:16:37 PM

It's so weird that Toriyama's writing this.

How tired is he of Dragon Ball by now?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#18996: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:17:25 PM

Clearly, not.

I have a message from another time...
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#18997: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:18:01 PM

I feel worse for the voice actors.

How many Dragonball games have borrowed their voices by now?

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#18998: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:18:39 PM

Toriyama was retired from DB for a decade, dude.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#18999: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:21:39 PM

I wonder if there would be a broadcast dub for this.

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#19000: Jun 13th 2015 at 7:21:55 PM

[up][up][up]Doesn't Goku's seiyuu actually love voicing him?

edited 13th Jun '15 7:22:09 PM by NapoleonDeCheese


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