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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18826: Jun 11th 2015 at 5:04:03 PM

Not if they trained for four months.

Or had their potential unlocked.

If Krillin had his potentially fully unlocked by Elder Kai, he'd have been stronger than Cell.

If Mr. Satan had his potential unlocked by Guru, he'd be stronger than Buu.

If Mr. Satan had his potential unlocked by Elder Kai, he'd be stronger than Whis.

edited 11th Jun '15 5:05:37 PM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#18827: Jun 11th 2015 at 5:05:16 PM
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18828: Jun 11th 2015 at 5:06:16 PM

If Yamcha had his potential unlocked, he would start sucking so much that everything else in the universe would die.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18829: Jun 11th 2015 at 5:07:27 PM

Yamcha's potential is the potential to suck even harder. Unlocking it would cause him to suck so much he'd overflow the level of suckage and wrap around to being the single most badass being that has ever existed.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18830: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:17:21 PM

You know, I'm sad that Vegeto is no longer the most powerful character in the series. I absolutely loved him.

At least Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Gogeta could still be a thing.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#18831: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:19:32 PM

The sad part is that since they could just let Buu absorb them and then get spat out, they didn't need to get rid of the earrings.

Though they didn't know Buu would be an ally later.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18832: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:23:32 PM

They didn't need to get rid of the earrings to just not use them.

I'm glad, because Vegetto has some really annoying fans.

Of course the same will go for Beerus and Whis if they go undefeated.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#18833: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:24:18 PM

Random opinion, in Ro F, I really like Whis's time-rewinding ability. It's the first real new idea we've had in this series for a long time. Besides the whole "12 universes" thing, but that's just been a throwaway line so far.

And such an overpowered ability like that sort of explains why Whis is apparently the strongest character in the show right now.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18834: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:24:31 PM

Vegeto vs Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) is still my favorite fight in the series. Especially the anime version.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18835: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:25:22 PM

I think it's a fitting ability, but we REALLY don't need more reset buttons. Textbook Deus ex Machina, I absolutely loathe it.

edited 11th Jun '15 6:25:57 PM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18836: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:31:55 PM

Um. No. For it to be a Deus ex Machina, the ability would have to come out of nowhere to resolve the plot when there would be no other way to. Not only was the ability demonstrated earlier in the movie, they could have also fixed everything with the Namekian Dragon Balls. Remember the three requirements for Deus ex Machina:

  1. Deus Ex Machina are solutions. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.
  2. Deus Ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured or referenced earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear to be a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".
  3. The problem a Deus Ex Machina fixes must be portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus Ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.

edited 11th Jun '15 6:32:48 PM by Zelenal

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18837: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:41:29 PM

I don't take things so literally, tv tropes is not the ultimate decider on these things. It did not invent the tropes, only observed them.

The originally named Deus ex Machina didn't always follow that pattern so it'd be asinine to treat that as absolute.

Dragon Ball is a long running series, introducing something in the same instalment really isn't adequete set up for me.

The Namekian Dragon balls wouldn't fix everything because Freeza was said to have survived and gotten away, only reversing time did things so conveniently.

edited 11th Jun '15 6:43:31 PM by Saiga

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#18838: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:42:25 PM

To be fair to Saiga, it IS a little cheap. But perhaps Super could use it in interesting ways. If Beerus and Whis are in Super, that is.

Right now, all my opinions are hinging on whether Super expands on anything. If it ends up being terrible...I don't know what I'm going to do.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18839: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:44:10 PM

So you're intentionally using Trope Decay. Okay then.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18840: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:47:20 PM

Everything decays.

It's a principle of thermodynamics.

That Beerus basically embodies.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18841: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:48:25 PM

So we shouldn't try to combat entropy?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18842: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:49:41 PM

Not unless it involves chanting monks and ghosts from the future.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18843: Jun 11th 2015 at 6:51:56 PM

No, I'm not. Tv tropes have no claim to the term or what it means.

Trope Decay would be trying to push it on the main wiki, which I'm not.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18844: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:28:15 PM

When it comes down to it, Whis' ability to rewind time wasn't really necessary, and if it wasn't necessary... why is it even there?

The Dragon Ball universe has a Reset Button and a backup for it. So long as the baddie is defeated, whatever the baddie did can be reversed. It's not about preventing Earth's destruction, it's about making sure the heroes survive long enough to bring it back.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18845: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:34:29 PM

Whis' ability was added largely for convenience, I'd say. It's much faster and simpler to just have Whis reset it then to have Goku Instant Transmission to New Namek, gather their Dragon Balls, and make all the wishes needed. The fact that there was another solution is why it doesn't qualify as Deus ex Machina.

That being said, the real question is why any of that was even necessary in the first place. It doesn't really add anything to the movie.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18846: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:36:18 PM

Already pointed out how that doesn't solve their problems - the movie says Freeza got away. Namek's Dragon Balls wouldn't fix that.

Without Whis, the bad guy wins.

edited 11th Jun '15 7:36:45 PM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18847: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:37:41 PM

Perhaps but it's not like he'd be hard to find with Whis around. Or probably the Kaioushin. Hell, Goku might be able to sense him depending on a number of factors.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18848: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:40:00 PM

The pacing would be weird though.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#18849: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:41:49 PM

Goku couldn't sense him after the explosion. Kaioshin couldn't find Boo's egg. Whis might be able to but we don't know the extent of his abilities, there are some things he simply doesn't know like the history of Super Saiyan God.

It's a pretty big if that they could track Freeza down again so easily.

Nothing could solve their problem like Whis' ability.

edited 11th Jun '15 7:43:08 PM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18850: Jun 11th 2015 at 7:43:55 PM

[up][up] Which returns us to the question of why it was necessary in the first place.

[up] Did Buu's egg even give off energy that someone could sense?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

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