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Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#18326: Jun 6th 2015 at 12:37:57 PM

Stop letting TFS skew your view of canon. Vegeta was treated as a deadly adversary and was better than everyone there. It wasn't a humiliation cogna, it was throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the guy tofinally take him down.

In fact, that fight did more for Vegeta's character than anyone else on the battlefield because it established what a Determinator he was even though he was a bad guy.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18327: Jun 6th 2015 at 12:42:54 PM

Yeah, the most humiliating thing to happen to him was Goku going Kaioken and blasting him away. Everything before and after that was either him winning or holding his own much better than anyone else could have at that point.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#18328: Jun 6th 2015 at 12:45:59 PM

Goku blasting away Vegeta with the Kaiouken x4 wasn't even that humiliating since doing that basically rendered Goku completely powerless while Vegeta still had mountains of energy to spare. If he hadn't transformed into the Oozaru, he probably could have easily thrashed Goku.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18329: Jun 6th 2015 at 12:56:05 PM

[up][up][up] TFS did nothing to change the actual events.

Everything I described is what happened to Vegeta.

I've just read the fucking manga.

And being The Determinator isn't necessarily a good or a badass thing.

I mean, Krillin is constantly throwing himself into fights he can't actually win.

Tien using the kikoho on Cell even though he knows he can't beat him.

Vegeta miscalculated during that fight, and didn't press his advantage effectively, and ended up being completely humiliated.

edited 6th Jun '15 12:59:33 PM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18330: Jun 6th 2015 at 12:59:07 PM

You didn't really describe anything, you just took a line from TFS.

And the point stands that that battle was far and away from being a Humiliation Conga.

He was by far stronger than Goku, immediately regained his composure and took him out as an Oozuru survived the spirit bomb and beat them some more and did far better against a rampaging Oozuru Gohan and managed to subdue him than anyone else could. That he was still alive and moving when it was all over is a testament to how good he was.

We all know exactly how that battle went.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:00:50 PM by LSBK

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#18331: Jun 6th 2015 at 12:59:45 PM

Yeah, but you're coloring the events in a way to make Vegeta look like a giant loser, because that's the narrative you, and also stupidoomfrenchy, have chosen.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18332: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:00:05 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18333: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:33:37 PM

@Very Melon

I disagree.

The Spirit Bomb is the Great Ape killer. The super move version, I mean.

Using it, I tend to clear mission 52 in less than three minutes at the most.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#18334: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:36:55 PM

I still think Blue Hurricane is better for Great Ape farming, but I've never used the regular Spirit Bomb seriously so I'll have to trust you on that.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18335: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:37:58 PM

[up][up][up]The only time he was "getting his buttted kicked" was when Goku took him by surprise with the Kaioken. The rest of the battle was them barely staying alive or out his way, primarily because they got lucky.

Goku got lucky he stayed alive long enough for Krillin and Gohan to show up. They got lucky that Yajirobe was there. They got lucky that Goku held on to some of the spirit bombs power. They got lucky that Gohan's tail grew back right when it did and the fake moon was up. Literally almost nothing that happened in that match that allowed them to stay alive can be attributed to their skill.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:38:21 PM by LSBK

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18336: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:39:25 PM

[up] And he still lost.

And not even with his tail still between his legs.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:39:45 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18337: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:39:29 PM

Luck is opportunity meeting preparation. Everything that allowed them to survive that fight was their raw skill. Even with all the good luck in the world they wouldn't have survived if Krillin and Goku weren't both insanely good at the whole 'fighting a superior opponent' thing.

[up]Yes.

He lost.

He lost a fight against an opponent who had trained for an entire year for the sole purpose of defeating him... A guy whom he would have defeated if it hadn't been for that guy's son and best friend showing up to ruin the party. And even then, he would've won against all three if a fat guy with a sword hadn't come right the fuck out of nowhere to end his monkey business.

Pretty much for all intents and purposes, Vegeta could have won that fight and in fact would have won that fight if Gohan's tail hadn't grown back in a ridiculously convenient moment. Not because of skill. Not because of power. Not even because of luck. Vegeta would've won based on sheer determination to continue.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:44:38 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18338: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:43:29 PM

[up][up]Barely, with so many things happening in their favor and some many things against him.

[up]I'd agree with that for Goku but not Krillin, all he did was try and fail to cut off Vegeta's tail and throw and miss with the Spirit Bomb. Not very impressive.

But that's not the point I was making. I said that Unnoun was misinterpreted how things happened and should be viewed and I stand by that.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#18339: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:46:36 PM

[up][up][up]... What?

Way to ignore all context there, bub. You can't hope to have a serious discussion when you do that.

Humiliation is what Frieza vs Super Saiyan Goku was, where Goku literally stopped trying because Frieza was so far beneath him. Humiliation is not what happened with Vegeta on earth, and the narrative doesn't try to play it that way, unlike with SS Goku vs Frieza.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:47:15 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18340: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:47:24 PM

[up][up]Things happened.

I can choose to interpret how I view them however I want.

The idea that yours is the "right" way is the height of arrogance.

...Like. God. In every other fandom and thread I participate in, we love talking about these alternate perspectives and interpretations of things.

What is wrong with you people? How can you not have any concept of joy?

[up] Krillin let him go.

Vegeta survived because a noseless monk with dwarfism chose to spare his life.

He had to summon his spaceship, and barely had the energy to crawl to it, and was utterly at the mercy of someone dozens of times weaker than him.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:50:03 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18341: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:47:32 PM

Krillin survived the fight with Nappa. Survived the fight with the Saibamen and killed most of them with one shot. Krillin survived the entirety of the fight with Vegeta and was left with enough health to kill him at the end of the fight.

Your saying "Oh, what he did wasn't that impressive" isn't wrong, per se, but the problem is that saying that would be like saying "surviving Nappa and Vegeta isn't that impressive", which would mean that they aren't that big a threat, which means that you're defeating your own point.

When it comes down to it: Krillin lived where everyone else died. Krillin survived an opponent a million times more dangerous than the Saibamen or Nappa. Yes it's true that in critical moments he failed to defeat Vegeta... But that's just because Vegeta is that good, not because Krillin is bad.

[up]Your 'interpretation' is in no way based on what actually happened.

The defense of "Oh you can't accept perspectives other than your own!" is incredibly weak.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:50:33 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#18342: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:48:45 PM

I mean, Vegeta himself most likely considers it humiliating, but we all know how Vegeta is, and his take on things isn't usually how most reasonable people would view the subject.

[up]It's a good thing I wasn't talking about that then. I never denied any of that, I specifically addressed Krillin's part in the fight with Vegeta because that's what we were talking about.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:57:56 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18343: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:49:42 PM

Vegeta considered being inferior to Goku humilliating until the very end of the series, whereupon he finally accepted Goku was better than him, and there wasn't any shame in that.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#18344: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:50:16 PM

[up]x3 Actually

-adjusts nerd glasses-

Vegeta in 4.5x as dangerous as Nappa and 15x as dangerous as the Saibamen

-nerd snorts-

edited 6th Jun '15 1:50:48 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#18345: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:50:41 PM

I think both sides are kinda right.

Vegeta tanked a shit load of punishment that would have killed a lot of other guys.

But he also got massively humiliated considering he was the strongest person there, and should have been able to beat them.

He massively underestimated Goku, and got beat up to the point he was forced to use the Oozaru form to win. And this was when Goku was ironically enough no longer capable of fighting back against him.

So everyone has a point. Rob wins. Peace is restored.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#18346: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:51:57 PM

That's his powerlevel. Not his threat level. Because Vegeta isn't just more powerful than Nappa.

Vegeta is more skilled, tougher and far crueler than Nappa. It's not just a difference in powerlevel. Nappa with Vegeta's powerlevel would not have lasted as long as Vegeta did.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#18347: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:53:03 PM

[up]x2 No, that's not the point.

It isn't humiliating because Vegeta got quadruple-teamed and survived moves that were supposed to be game-enders and still kept going. Stupidoomwhatever is wrong as another user pointed out, and the battle on Earth was not meant to be a humiliation cogna for him. Just because TFS chose to write it that way in no way makes it accurate.

edited 6th Jun '15 1:53:50 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18348: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:54:00 PM

Your 'interpretation' is in no way based on what actually happened.

Humiliation is a completely subjective response, judgment, and feeling.

What "actually happened" is a sequence of events where Vegeta got blown away by Goku's kaioken kamehameha, started getting over confident when he became a great ape and started crushing Goku, got his tail cut off by a fatass weaker than a Saibaman, got blasted by the spirit bomb, and crushed by a great ape that only transformed because of the power ball he himself created.

The light you view that sequence of events in is entirely up to you.

Looking at them in a different light though should be considered worth doing, and literally anywhere else would be considered normal.

I mean, Vegeta himself most likely considers it humiliating, but we all know how Vegeta is and his take on things isn't usually how most reasonable people would view the subject.

I think it's funny how you think I'm the one that's deriding Vegeta when I'm the only person here thinking about his feelings.

It isn't humiliating because Vegeta got quadruple-teamed and survived moves that were supposed to be game-enders and still kept going.

...How exactly does that make it not humiliating? Like. How is that an argument against it? I literally don't understand.

Stupidoomwhatever is wrong as another user pointed out, and the battle on Earth was not meant to be a humiliation cogna for him. Just because TFS chose to write it that way in no way makes it accurate.

She didn't say a goddamn thing about this!

Stop that!

Stop exporting drama!

It is, quite literally, against the rules!

For fuck's sake, why do you people react this way when I try to show you something fun?

I do not link things I think are funny or cute because I expect people to play the boring-ass game of canon-nitpicking with them! Much less insulting people who are actively creating things for the fandom they care about.

Who does that!? Who even does that!? Honestly!?

edited 6th Jun '15 2:07:48 PM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#18349: Jun 6th 2015 at 1:59:23 PM

When Frieza's surrounded by a mob of weaker fighters, he dominates the entire field and renders the battle so hopeless that an ancient legend has to be fulfilled on the spot to beat him. That is luck.

Vegeta had his chance to rock the mob fight and he blew it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#18350: Jun 6th 2015 at 2:30:48 PM

Time after time when Vegeta starts off doing well he gets his shit wrecked.

Yeah, he manages to beat Cui and Dodoria, but Zarbon's monster form crushes him.

Oh, he beat Zarbon, but now he can barely last a minute against Recoome.

He beats up Ginyu and Jeice, but Frieza floors him, even after Vegeta lets Krillin blow a hole in his chest.

He is so confident against 19 and 20, and 18 leaves him broken, unconscious, and barely alive.

He was doing pretty good with Cell until he let him transform.

Helpful Piccolo.


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