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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#17926: Jun 2nd 2015 at 12:59:58 PM

Or you could stop seeing problems where there are none, there's enough of real ones without making up new ones. Do you even realize how silly you sound?

"So this dragon ball villain delivered a cruel beat-down..."

"So? That's what they do, right? Remember how Freeza gored Krillin on his horn? Heh, that was fu..."

"...to a woman."

"HOLY SHIT, SEXISM!!! WOMEN IN REFRIGERATORS!!! HOW COULD TORYIAMA WRITE SUCH A THING?!?!!!?"

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:00:10 PM by Shlugo_the_great

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17927: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:05:27 PM

Frieza goring Krillin on his horns was not the defining point of Krillin's entire career.

Remember when he killed three Saibamen at once? How about when he cut off Frieza's tail? What about that time he lost in the Tenkaichi Budokai, but only after defeating Chiaotzu and holding his own in a long-anticipated showdown with Goku?

Sure, he got killed by Tambourine, blown up by Frieza, and made some bad choices regarding Android 18, but all in all, he's had a hell of a career with multiple ups and downs.

Whereas with Videl, do you remember that time when she....

Nothing. Because Videl's sole contribution is that scene where she's gratuitously tortured. Even her father, Mr. Satan, has a more impressive resume than that.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:06:10 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17928: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:07:46 PM

Or you could stop seeing problems where there are none, there's enough of real ones without making up new ones. Do you even realize how silly you sound?

Or maybe you could not resort to logical fallacies to get out of talking about something?

And the main difference is that Krillin's impalement was short, and facilitated him coming back afterwards to catch Frieza off-guard, cutting off Frieza's tail in the process.

Videl's fight was long, drawn-out, and only served to motivate a male character. After which she sat on the sidelines for a saga.

At least Krillin kept trying.

[up] Her only other contribution was to get knocked up just in time to add one more Saiyan to the cast for an oddly numerically specific ritual.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:09:20 PM by unnoun

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#17929: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:09:08 PM

A character introduced in the last arc has less on her resume than one who's been around since the second arc and been the deuteragonist for large parts of the show? Clearly the only possible explanation is sexim!

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17930: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:09:55 PM

The Buu Saga could have been written differently.

Every arc could have been written differently.

Idea: maybe female characters could have been written into the series more from the beginning?

I mean, it's not like anyone thinks Toriyama did it maliciously or deliberately.

Nobody here has accused Toriyama of thinking "how can I contribute more to the dehumanization of women in my comic" then laughing afterwards.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:12:41 PM by unnoun

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#17931: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:11:50 PM

Super Dragon Ball has a manga, so no, there should not be a new thread.

And I already came up for a good use for the multiform technique, back on page 706. Workers of a giant bug colony from another region of space-time spill out into the world when Mr. Popo tries to fix the door of spirit and time, there are too many of them to hunt down in time before they do too much damage(a "puny" power level a this point can still destroy the moon) so Piccolo uses the multiform technique to make quick work of them. One soldier bug trying to save the workers slips through before Popo can fix the problem so the Piccolos rejoin and they fight. Piccolo eventually winning. Maybe he doesn't even actually kill the bugs but disable them, showing how soft he has become. Dende heals them and Popo sends them back where they came from? Or maybe Piccolo obliterates them because he's badass like that?

Oh, and instead of a bank robber, I think it would be better if it was an ancient clan who used to rule everything they saw through use of a hereditary weapon that gave the rightful patriarch/matriarch super powers after best his/her rivals to throne in combat. The clan's dominance faded when an enemy, an ancestor to the current king of the world, tricked them and through the weapon into the ocean. Swearing revenge, the clan turned to crime under the new regime, eventually forming a giant syndicate who used their ill gotten resources to obtain the power pole once used by Goku and probe the depths for their long lost heirloom.

Krillen has been sent to investigate a heroine ring but stumbles upon the group's real plot and flies off the fight the current syndicate head, who is using the ancient super powers of his ancestors to take revenge on their name and topple the world government. The family parallels would work well for Krillen.

As for 17&18, would kind of KI tricks would a carnivorous plant use? Maybe some kind of unlimited stamina trick involving sunlight, forcing the androids to fight it until night falls and it finally starts getting tired?

edited 3rd Jun '15 3:38:18 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Buldogue's lawyer
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17932: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:12:23 PM

Like I said, even Mr. Satan has a more impressive resume, and it's all from the last arc too. He redeemed Majin Buu, is the entire reason Mr. Buu exists as a character, and played a critical role in the ultimate downfall of Pure Buu. The gag character had a more respectable career than Videl's one fight scene.

Goten and Trunks were also introduced in the last arc and had a hell of a career despite not even reaching puberty yet.

Here's some more examples of characters only introduced in the last arc with more respectable careers than Videl: Dabura, Kaioshin, Babidi, the Old Kaioshin, and Mr. Buu as a separate character from Pure Buu.

A lot of characters were introduced for the first time in the Buu Saga. Only one was gratuitously tortured at length and then given the boot for the rest of the story.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:15:23 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17933: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:15:51 PM

Of course, Super Saiyan God Goku didn't beat Beerus, so going by the same "logic" as the uselessness of Tien against Cell, Super Saiyan God didn't accomplish anything either.

Therefore, Videl's uterus has a career equally as unimpressive as the rest of her.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17934: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:16:07 PM

I'm still curious as to just what Videl could have done.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#17935: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:18:08 PM

Videl herself?

Nothing outside of getting lucky with a throw (very lucky, like Spopovitch getting caught off guard and hitting the ground before he could levitate).

What Toriyama could have done is give her some fights and victories before hand against strong human opponents so she has something under her belt.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17936: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:18:48 PM

Maybe she and her dad could have had a conversation about how fucked up it was that he'd lied? Maybe she and him could have helped turn Buu good together?

Maybe she could have had a rematch against Spopovich and gotten to defeat him and Yamu herself?

These are literally ideas I've had in like three minutes.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17937: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:19:58 PM

There are a lot of ways Toriyama could have written it so either that scene didn't happen or other things happened which made it less glaring and horrible.

The easiest of which would be to give Videl a rematch with Spopovich rather than having her suddenly do an about face on her decision to join the other protagonists at the ship, while Babidi pointlessly killed off him and Yamu because the plot was done with them.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#17938: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:20:39 PM

Those are good ideas.

I actually did think of the Rematch thing. If you knock a character down like that, you gotta give them an opportunity to get back up......

But anime doesn't really do that. Dragon ball in particular isn't interested in such things.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17939: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:23:00 PM

...I do like the idea of Videl fighting Beerus as the Super Saiyan God.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17940: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:23:39 PM

That is suddenly giving me the most awful mental images of Super Saiyan God Pan firing a Super Kamehameha delivered through Videl's crotch.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#17941: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:24:34 PM

Yes all those characters that had high power levels or special abilities that could affect the course of the plot. Videl problem isn't that she was a woman, it's that she was a normal human who was just introduced to the world of super-powered fighters right before the plot began so by any stretch of logic could she get on a level where she'd be useful.

Look, Toryiama dosen't portray women as well as he could, I'll be the first one to admit that. Should Videl got a more to do in the Buu arc? Of course! But that particular instance is not a good example of that. Videl suffered a brutal beat down, so did pretty much everyone else who ever threw a punch in this series at one point or another. This isn't an example of sexim.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17942: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:24:34 PM

[up][up]...Not that.

I mean.

There's a dozen times in the series where characters share energy with other characters. Like, Goku sharing energy with Frieza, for a start.

Or the Spirit Bomb in general.

[up] Gohan did mention that Videl was already stronger than her dad. She learned how to fly really quickly. So maybe she didn't actually have to be a "normal human" at the time?

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:25:45 PM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17943: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:27:16 PM

The problem isn't just that she didn't have enough to do. The problem is that what little she had to do was awful. For Videl, even doing less would actually be an improvement. There's not really any other characters you could make that claim for, save Yamcha - and even he beat up that Invisible Man that one time, with help.

Videl's career is worse than Yamcha's.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:28:26 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#17944: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:28:23 PM

Well, introducing her to all his advanced training methods that early might have been a bit much. I'd say it could still happen in Super, but I have doubts Toriyama will bother.

That is suddenly giving me the most awful mental images of Super Saiyan God Pan firing a Super Kamehameha delivered through Videl's crotch.

.......You worry me man.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17946: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:30:49 PM

She doesn't even need to be that impressive to rematch Spopovich. Like, nobody would be complaining if we had a scene of Tien taking down Spopovich and Yamu.

No one is saying Videl should have been strong enough to defeat Majin Buu, but there are just so many other ways her character could have been played that would have avoided the gratuitous torture scene being her defining moment as a fighter.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:31:03 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#17947: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:32:13 PM

[up][up]That's a start.

It did a lot for Krillin.

She could work her way up through the different training methods the humans used (bar King Kai, because King Kai apparently taught them all shit).

Now without a Hidden power unlocking, she'd reach her upper limit (probably around Tien or Yamcha level) but whether that would make her stronger or weaker than Spopovitch is hard to say.

[up]Edit: You keep [nja]'ing me.

I may have to assassinate you. Nothing Personal.

edited 2nd Jun '15 1:33:22 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17948: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:33:54 PM

I sorta wonder why they stopped with the weighted clothing.

I mean, the highest weight mentioned was fifty points per weight

And then ten tons each for when Goku was boxing in Other World, but aside from that.

You could theoretically just get heavier and heavier weights infinitely.

I mean, gravity training keeps being a thing.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#17949: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:35:18 PM

This might be a crazy idea, but there may be a limit to how heavy they could make the clothes.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#17950: Jun 2nd 2015 at 1:35:18 PM

I believe most stopped because it wasn't making much of a difference anymore.

I mean, Goku and eventually Krillin stopped taking off their weights after a while because it hardly slowed them down.

One Strip! One Strip!

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