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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17676: May 28th 2015 at 7:29:33 PM
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#17679: May 28th 2015 at 7:37:24 PM

[up] As in it's a hilarious macro. Not that Goku is a deadbeat dad. That's not awesome.

edited 28th May '15 7:37:50 PM by HamburgerTime

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17680: May 28th 2015 at 7:40:08 PM

It... doesn't really work.

'Cause Goku wouldn't know what the thing Milk is holding is.

...

Wait, was Chichi breasts, milk or breast milk?

Shit, I can never remember.

edited 28th May '15 8:09:04 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17682: May 28th 2015 at 8:03:52 PM

[up][up] Shush, you.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#17683: May 28th 2015 at 8:09:38 PM

[up][up]

If I'm not mistaken, that fourth wall breaking attack is during his first fight with Yamcha.

I think Toriyama was telling us something there.

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17684: May 28th 2015 at 8:19:12 PM

Goku was trying to shove Yamcha out of the manga, even back then.

For his own good.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#17685: May 28th 2015 at 8:34:18 PM

Poor Yamcha.

I recently realised that you could write Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu out of the plot of Z entirely and nothing would actually change. Against Nappa, the only person where it mattered that they died was Piccolo, and he ended up dying, anyway.

The only important thing that they did was when Tien stalled second-form Cell. And even then...did that really matter in the end?

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17686: May 28th 2015 at 8:52:00 PM

All evidence points to no.

But they had narrative purpose even if they aren't necessary in-universe.

Nappa wouldn't have the same weight if he didn't have the entire group to mow over. After that, I think they should have been retired.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#17687: May 28th 2015 at 9:01:09 PM

[up] Thing is... Nappa's kind of a nobody in the grand scheme of things. The very next arc would have another minor character (Nail) ten times stronger than him.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17688: May 28th 2015 at 9:02:26 PM

Nail's strength means absolutely nothing. In the context of that arc, that moment, it's a big deal.

New arcs don't invalidate the tension of previous arcs, or nothing would be worth a rewatch.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17689: May 28th 2015 at 9:07:51 PM

Sure, Raditz is laughably weak in the grand scheme of things.

But that doesn't mean that during his fight there wasn't tension, 'cause, guess what, he was the first ever villain to succesfully kill Goku.

In fact, he's the only villain to succesfully kill Goku. Against Cell Goku kinda killed himself.

Yes, I know technically Piccolo did it, but Piccolo would never have done it if it weren't for Raditz.

edited 28th May '15 9:08:20 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#17690: May 28th 2015 at 9:08:41 PM

Interpret character motivations and story themes however you want to; I don't care. What I take issue with is not being able to accept the facts on page. And thats my stance on Death of the Author.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#17691: May 28th 2015 at 9:11:16 PM

@ Saiga: What I'm saying is, I'm not sure you need to build up the strength of the minions that much, because there will always be better villains and better heroes right down the pipeline.

Do this wrong and you end up with disappointments like (to use a recent example) Diamante. Not that Nappa isn't a better character than Diamante, of course.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17692: May 28th 2015 at 9:14:30 PM

I'm not talking about strength, I'm talking about atmosphere. The atmosphere isn't the same if you remove some of the victims.

Diamite is a disappointment within his own arc. It doesn't involve things down the line.

edited 28th May '15 9:15:23 PM by Saiga

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#17693: May 28th 2015 at 9:15:05 PM

But honestly, even within that saga, I found Nappa a little TOO invincible for my liking. Chiaotzu blows himself up, and it does NOTHING! Same with Tenshinhan's Kikoho (which at least affects Cell). And Gohan's Unstoppable Rage. I get it was to hype up Goku's eventual return, but I think Toriyama overdid it a little.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17694: May 28th 2015 at 9:17:26 PM

If they had done anything, they couldn't well say "this is hopeless!".

I don't think it was too far, because everything left some kind of mark on him.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#17695: May 28th 2015 at 9:20:09 PM

I just think minions in manga tend to have a pretty high turnover rate, you know? I mean, sticking with Diamante here for a second, even if he had been impressive, I guarantee you that when we run into the guy with the equivalent role on, say, Kaido's crew, he'd make Diamante look like a chump either way.

Or a possibly better example from the same series, Lucci. Built up as the stuff of legends in his own arc. Two arcs later, we see his bosses already have mass-produced Mecha-Mooks better than him.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17696: May 28th 2015 at 9:22:11 PM

Yeah, but I just don't think that matters at all. There'd be no sense downplaying current antagonists due to some distant threat that's not even established yet.

Nappa wasn't really that built up. He only started getting hype when he started doing things.

edited 28th May '15 9:23:25 PM by Saiga

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#17697: May 28th 2015 at 9:24:20 PM

I've just been thinking of a way to make the power levels from Start of Z - Super Saiyan Goku grow a little less drastically. There's still that glaring issue where Vegeta says he can blow up the Earth (maybe), but it's only until Freeza's final form when destroying the planet actually becomes a big deal again. If Vegeta with a power level in the 20k range can blow up the Earth, then does that mean Zarbon and Dodoria can? Or the Ginyu Force? Or Nail? If so, why was that never an issue when they were fighting?

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#17698: May 28th 2015 at 9:29:01 PM

Probably because blowing up a planet puts the user in danger too :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#17699: May 28th 2015 at 9:30:35 PM

I think there's a difference between destroying a planet and blowing it up.

Like, you can destroy a planet without turning it into space dust. You just render it uninhabitable.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#17700: May 28th 2015 at 9:32:46 PM

Not to mention they had use for Namek. At least until Guru died and the balls were inert, at which point everyone but Frieza was dead anyway. And hey, guess what Frieza attempts after getting frustrated?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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