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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#17026: May 18th 2015 at 8:02:38 PM

They just felt right, if they were never particularly good.

So I was watching some clips(cuz I have nothing better to do :V) and noticed something about Vegeta that was actually carried over into Xenoverse. His Ki attacks are a hell of a lot more destructive than Goku's.

Vegeta has made attacks like Big Bang Attack and Final Flash and one of his most notable techniques is Beam Spam.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17027: May 18th 2015 at 8:23:22 PM

[up][up] And don't forget the odd occasion where a beam struggle happened by complete accident.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17028: May 18th 2015 at 8:49:08 PM

Yeah, once in a blue moon they did.

Because of how fast paced the Tenkaichi games were, they happened very infrequently, and a lot of DBZ games had the Beam Struggle as a counter mechanic, rather than something that can happen accidentally.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#17029: May 18th 2015 at 9:52:13 PM

Knowing Xenoverse, they'd work like the punch struggles it has.

No input, always ends in a draw and position reset, with slight damage done to both sides.

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17030: May 18th 2015 at 9:58:36 PM

The punch clashes in Xenoverse don't do any damage.

edited 18th May '15 9:59:03 PM by unnoun

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#17031: May 18th 2015 at 9:59:55 PM

They do. I've seen my health reduce during one, in a one-on-one situation.

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17032: May 18th 2015 at 10:03:42 PM

I've seen mine stay the same.

But energy and stamina refilled.

...You sure it wasn't something else?

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#17033: May 18th 2015 at 10:45:02 PM

Fairly sure, yes. I'm pretty sure there's no way to externally damage someone in a punch struggle , unless you line up a blast to land as they exit. I've tried.

I have a message from another time...
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#17034: May 19th 2015 at 6:05:02 AM

I can never figure out how to win a Pummel Duel in Xenoverse. When a Pummel Duel is initiated I don't know if I started it or if I'm winning it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17035: May 19th 2015 at 7:37:43 AM

Nobody wins a Xenoverse Pummel Duel. The characters auto-fight for a few seconds and it always ends in a Stalemate with both fighters moving back out of range, and both fighters getting lots of ki and stamina restored.

Mandatory stalemate in a Pummel Duel is one of Xenoverse's numerous flaws.

edited 19th May '15 7:38:24 AM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#17036: May 19th 2015 at 10:39:15 AM

I kind of like it.

It's sorta cinematic, and I like getting the stamina and ki.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17037: May 19th 2015 at 11:14:24 AM

I don't.

But then again, I'm the guy who liked the mechanics behind the meteor duels in DBGT Final Bout (which was basically what every fight in that game eventually came down to).

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#17038: May 19th 2015 at 11:28:55 AM

I don't like them because I don't know how they initiate (or are avoided), and I don't like being arbitrarily broken out of my combo, especially on missions with a time limit.

I have a message from another time...
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17039: May 19th 2015 at 11:37:50 AM

I much prefer how they handled simultaneous physical attacks in Tenkaichi 3, again.

Simultaneous hits just cancel out each other.

So, basically, they got it in reverse. Beams clash, physical attacks cancel each other.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#17040: May 19th 2015 at 3:08:32 PM

If I remember correctly, multifist struggles happen when two opponents hit each other with strong attacks.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#17041: May 19th 2015 at 4:04:47 PM

Four is a bit of an understatement. The fights with Roshi, Nappa, Vegeta, Freeza, Dr. Wilo, Cooler, Broly, Cell, Hatchyak, Janemba, and Bills all featured colliding energy attacks.

Admittedly, beams canceling out makes more sense than strikes, from a game play perspective.

Buldogue's lawyer
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17042: May 19th 2015 at 4:09:38 PM

Beams cancelling out runs counter to how they actually work in the series, though.

Also, Fat Buu VS Anorexic Buu also featured a beam struggle, IIRC.

edited 19th May '15 4:10:15 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17043: May 19th 2015 at 4:31:04 PM

Dr. Wilo, Cooler, Broly,[...] Hatchyak, Janemba

All of those are non-canon. I was only counting canon fights. Also, when I think "beam struggle" I think "Goku's Kaiouken x3 Kamehameha VS Vegeta's Galick Gun" or "Gohan's Father-Son Kamehameha VS Cell's Solar Kamehameha" and not "100% Final Form Frieza's You Will Die By My Hand! vs. Super Saiyan Goku's Angry Kamehameha." After all, the beam struggles from the Budokai games take more after the first two than the latter.

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17044: May 19th 2015 at 4:35:33 PM

Actually, the beam struggles in the Budokai Tenkaichi games are generally over within a few seconds at the most. They take after the one between Goku and Freeza, not the one between Gohan and Cell.

edited 19th May '15 4:36:17 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17045: May 19th 2015 at 4:40:01 PM

I'm not talking about time consumed, I'm talking about impact. The one between Goku and Freeza wasn't really a struggle since Freeza's attack might as well have not been there for all the good it did. The clashes between Goku and Vegeta or Gohan and Cell are actually struggles, just like the ones in the game.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17046: May 19th 2015 at 4:54:48 PM

Unless you play with people who are really evenly matched, again, the struggles last a few seconds at most, and they go the same way as the one between Goku and Freeza.

The blasts clash, one overwhelms the other and the full damage plus a bonus is dealt to the loser.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#17047: May 19th 2015 at 4:57:43 PM

[up][up][up][up] I was thinking of mentioning that myself, but then I figured, strict canon doesn't have all that much bearing on what makes it to DBZ games and what doesn't. They happened in official Dragon Ball fiction, and fans absorb that as much as anything else.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17048: May 19th 2015 at 5:22:44 PM

[up] I suppose.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#17049: May 19th 2015 at 6:16:33 PM

edit:Never mind, someone else addressed that much more briefly and politely.

As for what's easiest to program and game balance concerns conflicting with the source material, canon or not? That is The Problem with Licensed Games. What's exciting in a non interactive medium doesn't always translate, especially in an interactive medium where everyone is supposed to have a decent shot like a fighting game to an ever escalating fighting series like Dragon Ball where the first rival(Yamcha) is simply not going to beat the final villain(Majin Buu), where the main character progresses from fighting mere mortals with guns to a dimension warping star killer whom gods fear.

But it's not just an adaptation problem. Even if you base game design around a story element or vise versa, a logical development on any side can throw Gameplay and Story Integration out of whack. Videogames is hard. I think that's why all the early ones were Nintendo Hard, frustrated developers making players feel their pain(or limitations leading to difficulty being the only source of longevity, but that's the same thing isn't it?)

edited 19th May '15 6:17:47 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17050: May 19th 2015 at 6:46:09 PM

Nah, early videogames were Nintendo Hard because everyone was hardcore back then. Even little girls. Especially little girls.

Anyway, the only real reason there weren't beam struggles, as they said, was that they couldn't figure out how to make it work in 3 VS 3 battles.

Which, is a legitimate reason to not include it. Because, let's face it, it'd be hard to do.

But it would also be insanely awesome to have a 3 VS 3 Kamehameha duel. Just as cool as it'd be to have a six person pummel duel.

Incidentally, Dragon Ball Budokai Tenkaichi 3 had Pummel Duels that were nearly as cool as Gene's pummel duels with Devil Hand. That was fucking awesome.

edited 19th May '15 7:08:42 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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