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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17001: May 18th 2015 at 2:43:24 PM

The counterpoint to that is that the reliance on drop rates can also reduce playtime, by virtue of players getting bored and not finishing.

They got MMORPG in my Fighting Game!

edited 18th May '15 2:43:50 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#17002: May 18th 2015 at 2:45:19 PM

I've considered getting this game but the RNG just sounds so unbelievably annoying that I'd rather just wait for a sequel that addresses that.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17003: May 18th 2015 at 2:50:38 PM

Point proven.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17004: May 18th 2015 at 2:53:41 PM

It's not the random drops that are so much the issue, it's that RNG on top of more RNG. Because it's random whether or not you will access the part of the mission that you need to in order to get what you want to get and then it's random for a drop to happen and past that, everything has multiple drops, so it's even more random whether you get what you want or not.

Put simply, it's not so much having Random Drops that's the issue, it's having MMORPG style drops, where 90% of the time nothing drops, 5% of the time it's something you already have, 4% of the time it's something you can't use and 1% of the time it's something you actually want.

How to fix it:

Make it so you only need one copy of each article of clothing to be equipped to everyone. Then make it so each article of clothing only drops if you don't already have it. Also, no RNG on top of RNG, it's stupid for the second part of the quest not to trigger if I fulfill the conditions for it to. Whoever had that idea should be shot.

edited 18th May '15 2:58:51 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#17005: May 18th 2015 at 2:56:08 PM

Yeah, see, that's just intolerable for me.

It's a shame, because it sounds like the gameplay's quite fun and the story mode's really silly goodness.

edited 18th May '15 2:56:33 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#17006: May 18th 2015 at 2:56:33 PM

I think the only thing that should be random is which equipment piece you get. Sure someone might end up getting 4 arm pieces in a row but at least you'd get something.

edited 18th May '15 2:57:16 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17007: May 18th 2015 at 2:57:56 PM

I think they should be linked to achievements. Not Achievements like the unlockable points, but things you achieve. Like, kill Raditz with the Makankosappo to get this piece, defeat Raditz with more than 50% HP to get this piece, etc.

RNG drops are just lazy.

edited 18th May '15 2:58:41 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#17008: May 18th 2015 at 2:59:25 PM

The layers of RNG is Xenoverse's only real flaw. Even then I'd still call it one of the best Dragonball games I'm ever owned.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17009: May 18th 2015 at 3:00:50 PM

Actually, that'd be kinda cool, and it also gives us the opportunity to tie really strong gear to really crazy things.

So you get really good things for doing really well at the game. It's really the same concept as the crafting shop... only more action oriented.

[up]Oh, it's far from its only flaw.

It has no freaking beam struggles, for one. For another, the AI is incredibly dumb. Also, there's the fact that you can only have local versus on one stage.

Xenoverse is a decent game, but it has flaws, and it's a disservice to ignore them. The reason it looks so freaking good is that it came after Ultimate Tenkaichi and Battle of Z. Of course it'd look much better.

Even the AI looks better, compared to the impossibly stupid AI of Battle of Z (which just would not revive you, and quite often it'd just stand still right next to you, taunting you).

edited 18th May '15 3:03:24 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#17010: May 18th 2015 at 3:04:05 PM

[up][up][up] That would be pretty cool.

[up] The AI is very dumb. When Vegeta stands there letting Yamcha kick his ass, you know there's a problem.

One thing I think would be cool is if the AI prioritized killing certain fighters over others. Like if you fight Broly with a team of Goku, Cell, and Buu, Broly would focus on taking out Goku. Or if you have say Frieza and Vegeta on a team, they wouldn't help each other out if one was getting their ass handed to them.

edited 18th May '15 3:09:00 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#17011: May 18th 2015 at 3:06:46 PM

No Beam Struggles is an unfortunate absence, but not an actual design flaw. You are correct about the ally A.I. and local versus restrictions.

edited 18th May '15 3:07:14 PM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#17012: May 18th 2015 at 3:16:17 PM

Intentional design flaws are still design flaws.

My vote for best Dragon Ball game is Tenkaichi 2/3. I link them together because 3 was basically an expansion pack for 2. 2 for Story Mode, 3 for a character roster that's not only kept me coming back for years, but prevented my PS 2 from getting put into storage with the rest of my old consoles.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#17013: May 18th 2015 at 3:27:32 PM

That's a reasonable compromise. I guess I don't feel like it's a flaw because it's lack of presence doesn't affect my opinion of how the game operates, whereas the other flaws mentioned do.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17014: May 18th 2015 at 3:27:48 PM

I like 2 the best out of the Tenkaichi games, but since all my friends liked 3 more, I wound up playing Tenkaichi 3 way more.

I did once manage to get a combo up to 99,999 damage in Tenkaichi 2, but fuck if I remember how the hell I did that.

[up]IMHO, it really does change how the game operates. Because when I try to counter someone's blast with my own... well, it's like putting a barrier up.

Even Final Bout had beam struggles. And it was based on GT, where there weren't any!

edited 18th May '15 3:29:20 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#17015: May 18th 2015 at 3:33:11 PM

Fair enough, opinions are opinions and see where you're coming from.

Speaking of beams, Final Shine Attack is great on a Super Vegeta user. 30 hits on a full beam if it connects and the damage to show it.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#17016: May 18th 2015 at 3:35:39 PM

It's funny how in love with beam struggles the fandom is despite the fact that it only happened four or so times in the entire series.

That and the fact that everyone calls them beam struggles when only one game, Budokai 3, calls them that with Energy Clash being the most common name.

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#17017: May 18th 2015 at 3:47:08 PM

I'd rather not get blindsided by Gohan because my attack caused a beam struggle with Goku, thanks. The AI already has enough ways to endlessly Kamehameha me. The punch struggles it does have are bad enough.

edited 18th May '15 3:47:55 PM by Enlong

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17018: May 18th 2015 at 4:20:45 PM

The fact that the Beam Struggles tend to be incredibly awesome makes people want to reproduce them.

Furthermore, I don't know if you've noticed, but most large ki beams force you to stand still while they run their course anyway. It doesn't make any difference whether you're engaging in a Beam Struggle with someone or not when it comes to a third party hitting you from behind with a Super Kamehameha.

But you did bring up another of Xenoverse's big flaws:

Fake Difficulty. It's everywhere in this game. Instead of genuinelly playing well, the AI sucks and relies on Super Armor, Infinite Ki and Practically Infinite Stamina to be a threat.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#17019: May 18th 2015 at 5:35:25 PM

Super Armor and Permanent Super Saiyan is really annoying. I can't count how often a combo will be broken because the SA kicked back in pr how many times i've had to deal with one Super Kamehameha after another nearly depleting my health.

One thing I like is if you time it right, attacks can block other moves. My personal most awesome moment was on Namek, both me and Goku were almost dead and I decide to try Big Bang attack just as he's using Super Kamehameha, the attacks connected and my BBA blocked his SK allowing me to beat him. Another was my human vs. Super Saiyan 4 Goku, our x10 Kamehameha's hit each other at the exact moment, blocking both from hitting. Those and similar moments are very awesome for me.

edited 18th May '15 6:06:18 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17020: May 18th 2015 at 6:48:55 PM

Now imagine how cool it would've been if your attacks had clashed against your opponent's and you had then proceeded to win those clashes for a ridiculously climactic victory.

Yeah. Loads cooler than just surviving it and ending it with a punch, amirite?

Incidentally, I've lost count of how many fights in Budokai Tenkaichi 3 were voluntarily ended in Beam Struggles because, when we were down to our last characters and the last bar of life, we decided to end it in a more fun and impressive way than just punching each other to death.

edited 18th May '15 6:49:56 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#17021: May 18th 2015 at 7:09:09 PM

It might be awesome, but that all depends if button mashing or something was involved. What determines if you win a Beam Struggle? Is it stat based? Is it level based? What decides whether you win or not? Knowing Xenoverse, it'd be entirely random.

I'm completely serious though, what decides who wins a beam struggle in other games? I've never played a Dragon Ball game besides Xenoverse, and the only fighting games i've played are the Smash Bros games and Soul Caliber 4 and 5 so I have no knowledge of how other fighting games work normally.

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#17022: May 18th 2015 at 7:21:15 PM

It's usually based on button mashing or rotating the analogs over and over again. It's a feat of dexterity.

The physical clash, where the two fighters exchange punches super fast, is usually used as a melee version of a Beam Struggle under the same premise; the loser of the rapid-fire blow exchange is dealt lots of damage, smashed away, and/or set up for a follow-up attack.

edited 18th May '15 7:23:00 PM by TobiasDrake

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#17023: May 18th 2015 at 7:28:39 PM

In previous games it has been either button mashing or analog stick twirling.

Tenkaichi 2 had some mechanics that added depth to it, like being able to pump ki into it to gain an advantage but that was dropped.

I don't really care about beam struggles as it is. They could make them more interesting if individual moves reacted differently - like Goku having a Kaio-ken x3 Kamehameha that can ramp up to x4 to win struggles, or Vegeta's Galick Gun having a taunt-like effect that forces a beam struggle out of the opponent.

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#17024: May 18th 2015 at 7:36:52 PM

Just from hearing how the Beam Struggles work, i'm glad they're not in Xenoverse. Reminds me of the Wolf fights in Assassin's Creed 3. Hated that shit.

[down] Guess i'd have to experience it myself to really form an opinion. So for now i'll just say it doesn't sound that fun, but without taking part in it I have no way of actually knowing.

edited 18th May '15 7:42:28 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#17025: May 18th 2015 at 7:39:33 PM

They never felt like a shitty quicktime event, though. Mostly because you could see them coming a mile away, and they didn't happen frequently. Mostly, Beam Struggles only really happened when two people agreed to cause them. After all, it's not a very smart idea to counter a beam with your own beam when you can just move out of the way.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

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