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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#16776: May 15th 2015 at 10:44:26 PM

Ya know, why hasn't Frieza tried rising his stamina instead of just going as a full-on energy powerhouse? No matter how powerful he gets, he goes down like a pickle in a washing machine.

It's like he wants to get killed or something...

edited 15th May '15 10:45:14 PM by Rinsankajugin

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#16777: May 15th 2015 at 10:49:53 PM

Or, similar to Vegeta, he has no idea how to train effectively. Think about it, for all the training Vegeta does, it's the equivalent of just lifting weights. He never learns any new techniques or learns about any sort of martial art, his entire basis is "I was the strongest before, and everything worked. I'll just be the strongest again, change nothing, and everything will be fine."

My various fanfics.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#16778: May 15th 2015 at 10:51:42 PM

How strong was Mecha-Frieza, anyway? He lost to SS Trunks, who was said to be equal to SS Goku, but he previously remarked that with his cybernetic enhancements he was now stronger than Goku. Was that just bluster?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#16779: May 15th 2015 at 10:54:29 PM

Freeza doesn't know how strong Goku actually is. He's probably gotten stronger, but there's a 30,000,000 gap between him and Goku, and Freeza probably thinks it's much, much smaller than that, and that the cybernetics could bridge it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#16781: May 15th 2015 at 11:00:49 PM

No, it was stupidity. Frieza doesn't know how power levels work. Frieza doesn't know what energy is.

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16782: May 15th 2015 at 11:05:37 PM

[up][up][up][up] The Big Bang Attack and Final Flash say "Hi."

edited 15th May '15 11:05:47 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#16783: May 15th 2015 at 11:09:03 PM

Oh, you mean "Big dumb laser" and "big dumb laser"? Two moves he uses once and then never again, because why bother, everyone got to see how huge my laser penis is?

Saying those are new techniques is like saying "punching someone" is different from "punching someone way harder."

edited 15th May '15 11:09:42 PM by SonOfSharknado

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16784: May 15th 2015 at 11:16:08 PM

The Big Bang Attack is not a laser. Hell, none of the beam attacks qualify as light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation.

As for the Final Flash, if you're going to say that then you might as well call all of the beam attacks "big dumb lasers."

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#16785: May 15th 2015 at 11:25:12 PM

Final Flash still remains one of the most impressive attacks in the series.

Also, the new version he used on that DBH combo with Goku and Bills is incredibly cool looking. It looks like he's using a Gallick Gun in one of his hands.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#16786: May 15th 2015 at 11:27:13 PM

Well, yes. Which is why beam attacks utilized in ways other than lasers connote actual skill, like the Hellzone Grenade, Kienzan, Spirit Ball, or Hell, even just the stuff Goku does on a regular basis. Whether it's tricking Frieza, shooting a Kamehameha out of his feet, or using the Kamehameha to turn his crippled body into a missile, the man is an innovative genius.

EDIT: Which is not to say Final Flash isn't cool. It's cool as shit. But it also doesn't take a great amount of skill. Hell, he basically does the same move to Recoome like three years earlier on Namek, and it's about as effective. Just smaller.

edited 15th May '15 11:28:59 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16787: May 15th 2015 at 11:29:19 PM

Hellzone Grenade, Kienzan, Spirit Ball

None of which are beam attacks. They're ki attacks but not beam attacks.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16789: May 15th 2015 at 11:32:37 PM

Most of the new attacks people learn are fucking useless. Hellzone Grenade is, logically, a downright shitty technique. Vegeta knows the Kienzan anyway, but he doesn't use it because it's an awful technique that actually disappointed Goku. In fact, Vegeta's probably the best user of it since he used it to cut off Gohan's tail while Kuririn hasn't done shit with it. Spirit Ball.. hah!

Straight beam attacks are Boring, but Practical. Almost none of the innovative moves are actually worth anything.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16790: May 15th 2015 at 11:36:36 PM

When did the Kienzan disappoint Goku? I mean, it seems like a really powerful attack since it could have easily killed Nappa despite him being about 3x Krillin and it likely could have cut 2nd Form Freeza in half despite him being many times Krillin.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#16791: May 15th 2015 at 11:46:55 PM

Yeah, I just think Saiga hates innovation.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16792: May 15th 2015 at 11:48:23 PM

When Freeza uses it, complete with homing:

Chapter 326 (DBZ 132), P4.1-5
Context: after Goku dodges his homing blast
Freeza: “An afterimage, huh?...You’re pretty good, aint’cha?...”
Goku: “Like I thought, I don’t have any desire to fight you as you are now…With you pinning your hopes on a worthless technique like that…If you really want to settle the score with me, recover your stamina and polish your skills.”
Freeza: “Yo-you’re calling my technique worthless?...Well then, how about two of them?!”

[up] Um, no I don't, and I'm really sick of people jumping ahead to assuming I hate something when I point out how the story portrays something.

edited 15th May '15 11:49:11 PM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16793: May 15th 2015 at 11:49:50 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Saiga hates assumptions.

And people.

edited 15th May '15 11:50:44 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#16794: May 15th 2015 at 11:50:24 PM

I think you might be getting the wrong context here too.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16795: May 15th 2015 at 11:55:54 PM

Are you talking about the context behind what you said or the context behind Freeza's quote?

Because there's really not much else to get... Goku called the homing Kienzan a worthless technique, it's pretty simple.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#16796: May 15th 2015 at 11:56:23 PM

Hellzone Grenade and the Kienzan are pretty cool, even if they're not all that practical. At the very least, they both have the advantage of being somewhat unexpected techniques that can catch the foe off-guard, and in the few cases of their use that's exactly what they do (To limited effect, granted, but that's not the techniques' fault).

It kinda reminds me of the conversation from Metal Gear Rising about Sundowner's ridiculous scissor blades. It might catch a foe off guard by sheer virtue of being such a gimmicky and unexpected novelty, but in a prolonged battle it's simply less practical than swinging the blades around separately (Or in DBZ's case, good ol' lazer beams).

Not gonna bother talking about the Spirit Ball though.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16797: May 16th 2015 at 12:03:14 AM

The problem with the novelty win is that the natural reaction to them would defeat them. Like the Kienzan - even if you don't know what it does, dodging it would still be the first thing you'd do. Especially when the technique is easy to dodge. Hell, Kuririn actually has a technique that's based on the idea of the opponent dodging it - that is genuinely skillful and can take someone by surprise.

Hellzone Grenade only works if your opponent stays still. Which kind of sucks, because the whole point of the move is to prevent your opponent from escaping to begin with. It defeats its own purpose with that requirement.

Sokidan's just hilarious, though, the way Yamcha used it. Take advantage of the direction manipulation to get multiple hits from one attack, like in the games? Nah, just have it hit once and do fuck all damage. That could just be a case where the user fails rather than the technique being poor, but then you'd have to assume it's possible to get multiple hits out of it without dissipating.

edited 16th May '15 12:05:04 AM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#16798: May 16th 2015 at 12:06:20 AM

Hmm... perhaps if Krillin first peppered someone with larger but incredibly weak energy blasts to make them think that's all he's capable of, then when they're charging at him throw a Kienzan? Then the opponent would assume it's as weak or weaker than the other blasts and simply assume they can tank it head-on?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16799: May 16th 2015 at 12:09:15 AM

Do note that he would have killed Nappa had Vegeta not been smart enough to tell Nappa to dodge it.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16800: May 16th 2015 at 12:09:24 AM

'Cause that still requires the opponent to do nothing while he prepares that.

[up] Because Nappa was being careless. It's simply not a good idea to rely on a technique that will only work in that condition.

One way the technique might be effective is against an opponent locked in a beam struggle who won't be able to escape. But as the Gohan vs Cell showed, a simple ki attack would suffice there anyway.

edited 16th May '15 12:11:02 AM by Saiga


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