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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#16376: May 9th 2015 at 5:43:27 PM

What is a measure of how weak Gohan got is that he couldn't take on an opponent on Cell's level.

It is unknown whether it's Perfect or Super Perfect Cell, but the point is that Gohan couldn't take on an opponent he would've been able to beat in his first Super Saiyan form seven years earlier.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16377: May 9th 2015 at 5:47:48 PM

He could take on Dabura, his head just wasn't in the game. It never is really.

Vegeta was mad partly because Gohan was weaker than he used to be but also because he should still have been strong enough to be able to take on this useless ass poser.

...At least, that's what I remember.

I mean, he mentions Gohan's fighting sense in the english dub of the anime. That doesn't sound like a power level thing.

edited 9th May '15 5:51:15 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#16378: May 9th 2015 at 5:52:06 PM

Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting. There's no reason for him to prolong the fight if he can end it. Which leads one to assume that he couldn't.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#16379: May 9th 2015 at 5:53:29 PM

Yeah, Gohan only prolongs fights when he's winning.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16380: May 9th 2015 at 5:54:12 PM

Gohan's kinda dumb when it comes to fighting though.

He holds back all the time.

He did it against Cell as a Super Saiyan 1.

Gohan's usual tactic when it comes to fighting is seemingly to wait for his opponent to give up.

And when Vegeta mentions fighting sense. Maybe Gohan's skill level decreased even faster than his power level did?

And it seemed like he was getting into his groove and about to start giving Dabura run for his money when Dabura retreated because Vegeta was happening.

edited 9th May '15 6:03:01 PM by unnoun

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#16381: May 9th 2015 at 5:58:56 PM

It HAD been 7 years since he'd trained properly. And, to be honest, Gohan hasn't had much experience actually fighting someone who's as strong as him. In all of his actual fights, he's either getting Curb Stomped or he's the one Curb Stomping them. We've never seen him fight someone of an equal power to him. At least, not on screen.

It seems Gohan's general tactic is "hit them really, really hard, and hope that they stop moving after that".

edited 9th May '15 5:59:44 PM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16382: May 9th 2015 at 5:59:07 PM

That too.

Gohan doesn't tend to be an especially skilled fighter overall.

edited 9th May '15 6:00:04 PM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16383: May 9th 2015 at 5:59:20 PM

Goku outright says he could have fused with Gohan or Vegeta if they were alive. That's how the idea to fuse the kids came up.

Goku mentions that being close in strength is necessary as a baseline requirement. You can't just adjust your power and fuse with anyone, that just works when too people close in power do it.

Gohan was also stronger than Dabra, but his skills were rusty. Dabra's magic was the issue, which caused Goku to say Dabra was stronger than they thought.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16384: May 9th 2015 at 6:01:33 PM

I mean, that fight ended in a draw because Vegeta was having a temper tantrum.

Just saiyan.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#16385: May 9th 2015 at 6:01:45 PM

Well yeah, Gohan's entire "fighting" experience up until Cell was getting his ass kicked by an endless parade of super strong guys. I don't think he ever actually won a fight until then.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16386: May 9th 2015 at 6:03:30 PM

I mean, he never really learned to dodge.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#16387: May 9th 2015 at 6:06:33 PM

You know, that dodge joke is especially funny since Piccolo complains in canon that Gohan dodges too much.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16388: May 9th 2015 at 6:10:31 PM

I think if Dabura had managed to get Gohan mad the fight would have ended quicker.

Gohan did too much yoga those seven years.

edited 9th May '15 6:18:35 PM by unnoun

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#16389: May 9th 2015 at 6:15:36 PM

[up] Oh, of course!

After all, Gohan wouldn't have gone SSJ 2 if Cell wasn't doing EVERYTHING HE COULD to try and trigger it.

I heard someone mentioning that maybe Gohan wasn't SSJ 2 against Dabura because he wasn't angry enough. The only reason he could do it at the tournament was because he was still angry over Videl getting beaten.

Does that have any element of truth to it?

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#16390: May 9th 2015 at 7:13:10 PM

Come to think of it, I don't think Gohan went Super Saiyan for that whole fight. Why is that?

I mean, as others have said, he doesn't enjoy the fight, so he should be trying to end it as soon as possible by using his strongest powers right off the bat.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16391: May 9th 2015 at 7:18:28 PM

[up][up] Unlikely. He turned Super Saiyan 2 at the tournament after goofing around with his glasses.

He was angry due to Piccolo and Kuririn being turned to stone, but said he couldn't draw strength from it like he used to.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#16392: May 9th 2015 at 7:21:12 PM

It didn't help that Goku and Vegeta were acting like this was just a walk in the park for them. You know, as opposed to having the fate of the world on their shoulders.

I mean, yeah, the opponents were easy, but the Supreme Kai was the only one who was acting with the right amount of seriousness in Babidi's ship.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#16393: May 9th 2015 at 7:42:27 PM

Kaioshin, on the other hand, was over-cautious. Goku and Vegeta wanted to just blast through the ship and get to Babidi, but he was all, "No no no no that might awaken Buu somehow, let's do this on Babidi's terms instead!"

When blasting through the ship to get to Buu's pod ended up being exactly what Gohan and Kaioshin wound up doing, it rendered the entire previous sequence pointless, definitively proving the ol' Saiyan standby of "Blow it the f*ck up" was indeed the correct answer.

edited 9th May '15 7:43:01 PM by TobiasDrake

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#16394: May 9th 2015 at 7:51:02 PM

I'm honestly kind of iffy on Dabura being as strong as Cell. Dabura vs. Gohan was pretty even, and Gohan was stronger when he fought Cell.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#16395: May 9th 2015 at 7:56:06 PM

And Gohan was stronger than Cell.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#16396: May 9th 2015 at 7:57:33 PM

[up] As Super Saiyan 2. He was a regular Super Saiyan when he beat him, and it's kind of ambiguous who was stronger there due to Vegeta's assist.

At least, that's how it seemed to me.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#16397: May 9th 2015 at 8:03:02 PM

Gohan was stronger than Cell as a Super Saiyan, though, or at least somewhere close to Cell's powerlevel. Enough to deal more damage in one kick than all of Goku's attacks save the Instant Kamehameha.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#16398: May 9th 2015 at 8:19:43 PM

Exactly.

Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2 was like twice Cell. He destroyed Cell. Completely. He tanked Cell's attacks, broke his jaw, and made him vomit up his power-up.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#16399: May 9th 2015 at 8:40:40 PM

And that was just Perfect Cell. Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2 was still explicitly twice as powerful as Super Perfect Cell.

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#16400: May 9th 2015 at 8:42:40 PM

Point conceded, I guess.

You know, DB may be the only example I'm aware of of an apparently benevolent One World Government. I sort of wish more of that had been explored.


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