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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#15601: Apr 29th 2015 at 3:38:38 PM

That distinction is well demonstrated in the parallel scenes where Goku and Piccolo strip down.

At the start, during the Raditz arc, the exchange went thusly:

  • GOKU: Oh, Piccolo, you wear weighted clothes too?
  • PICCOLO: No, Goku. I just love getting naked around you.
  • RADITZ: Aha! So, nudity makes you stronger on this planet! *unzips*
  • GOKU: No, we're wearing weighted clothing.
  • RADITZ: Of course! Because that would be ridiculous, ahahahaha!

It's a funny joke combining Piccolo's snark and Raditz being dumb for laughs, but doesn't communicate much about the characters beyond the existence of weighted clothing. Contrast with this, from the remake of Dead Zone Abridged.

  • PICCOLO: Why would you even bring your weighted gi?!
  • GOKU: Why would you?
  • PICCOLO: Because I don't have a house to leave them in!
  • GOKU: Why don't you just buy one with the Ox King's money?
  • PICCOLO: ...what world do you live in?
  • GOKU: One with a house. And a wife. And a son!
  • PICCOLO: I really don't care for you right now.

Here, the humor stems from Piccolo's isolation and Goku's naïve innocence. Everyone's in-character, and the comedy is a product of these ridiculous personalities simply interacting with each other.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#15602: Apr 29th 2015 at 3:53:10 PM

Not to mention, when I was watching History of Trunks abridged, they managed to address almost all of the plot holes. Like, why don't they go to New Namek? Dr. Briefs is out in space, looking for it. How did Trunks survive 17 and 18? 18 jumped in front of 17's blast by accident at the last moment.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#15603: Apr 29th 2015 at 3:56:04 PM

The actual answer to New Namek is that no one knows where it is and no one thought to try and get in touch with Baba to see if she could get in touch with someone in Otherworld who could get in touch with King Kai who could then locate New Namek.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#15604: Apr 29th 2015 at 4:04:01 PM

If Baba is even alive or in the land of the living to begin with.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#15605: Apr 29th 2015 at 4:06:51 PM

Well, there's no reason to assume why she'd be dead. She lives in the middle of nowhere if I recall, the Androids have no reason to hunt her down since they never hunt anyone down, she would have no reason to confront the Androids, and she can always teleport to the Otherworld if she needs to GTFO for a few minutes.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15606: Apr 29th 2015 at 4:10:03 PM

Baba survived Buu.

She and her brother can't die of old age seemingly.

By which I mean that Roshi is still alive as of Age 1000 in Online.

Yeah. I know.

Roshi has that submarine. Which isn't something TFS made up.

edited 29th Apr '15 4:10:27 PM by unnoun

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#15607: Apr 29th 2015 at 4:13:49 PM

i liked all the jokes about their immortality.plus the bird bit.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#15608: Apr 29th 2015 at 5:33:17 PM

I've been reading the "rumors" section on Kanzenshuu; very interesting stuff. Like, the whole "Toriyama had draconian, slavedriving editors" thing seems to have been born out of a mistranslation. In the final chapter, a note from Toriyama says, "I asked a favor of those involved and am ending the manga." The Viz version translated this as something like "My editors have finally let me end the manga."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#15609: Apr 29th 2015 at 5:46:54 PM

And Goku is apparently doing anything but training in the afterlife with Kaio-sama and is thus unable to telepathically contact Bulma with New Namek's location because reasons.

Really, there's no reason Baba should even be necessary to contact anyone in the afterlife. Kaio-sama can telepathically relay communications without needing to travel in person.

edited 29th Apr '15 5:48:34 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15610: Apr 29th 2015 at 5:49:45 PM

Maybe it's against the rules because death of natural causes and also the balance of life and death in the universe being relatively unaffected by a pair of homicidal superpowered teenagers?

I mean, it's not like Goku can force King Kai to use telepathy.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#15611: Apr 29th 2015 at 5:57:43 PM

Honestly, there's a lot of problems with what happened in Trunks' future even just taking into account King Kai and Goku's personality. I mean, the firs thing Goku would do is go back to King Kai's place to train because why would he do anything else? Likewise, he'd probably ask King Kai to check in on the Earth every now and then to make sure everyone's doing okay. Once everyone started dying, he'd ask if there was anything he could do (in order to be able to fight the Androids if not to save everyone) and would learn of the whole "return for 24 hours" thing. He'd then push himself until he was sure he could defeat the Androids, go kick their asses, then probably tell Bulma or Gohan where New Namek is.

Why would he tell someone where New Namek is? Piccolo (and the other fighters) would also go straight to King Kai's world since they did it when they died in the Saiyan Saga and they, too, wish to get stronger. Even if Goku didn't come up with the idea to got to New Namek, Piccolo probably would have (or maybe Kami since he should be there somewhere). Hell, Goku could even use his Instant Transmission to go grab Dende himself provided he still had the time after thrashing the Androids.

[up] I don't buy that since he trained Goku to fight Vegeta and Nappa even though they're also small fries in the grand scheme of things. Hell, even Freeza's a small fry in the grand scheme of things.

edited 29th Apr '15 5:59:21 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15612: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:00:28 PM

I forget, was Goku strong enough to beat the androids before he got in the Hypersonic lion tamer?

Also, when would Goku know that he was strong enough to beat the characters whose energy he couldn't sense?

[up] Vegeta and Nappa were around for how many years before Goku reached King Kai's planet? If he gave that much of a fuck maybe he could have been a little more proactive?

And Goku already had the dragon balls ready to bring him back.

Not an option anymore because heart virus.

edited 29th Apr '15 6:03:29 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#15613: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:07:53 PM

No, Goku was not strong enough to take 16, 17 or 18 before the Hyperbaric Tank Changer.

Anyway... Maybe Goku doesn't get to go to King Kai's 'cuz he died of natural causes and not defending anyone?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15614: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:10:56 PM

And now he's in Heaven.

I mean, there's no fighting, but there's probably food? Next best thing?

And, hey, Grandpa Gohan. So that's nice.

I mean, Papa Bardock's probably in Hell. Unless you take the time travel into account. And even then Mira Towa probably kidnapped him for reasons. Gine might be in Heaven though maybe?

edited 29th Apr '15 6:12:48 PM by unnoun

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#15615: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:13:05 PM

[up][up][up] Certainly. Future Trunks was strong enough to fight both Androids simultaneously and might have actually had a chance of winning if it was 1-on-1. By the time those three years passed between Mecha Freeza and the Androids, Goku should have undoubtedly been stronger than Future Trunks. Even without a specific goal, Goku would have certainly spent those three years training in the afterlife. As for how he knows he's stronger, he just has to compare himself with Gohan after enough time passed. His instincts should be enough to tell him if he's strong enough to defeat the Androids based on that alone.

I don't see how the rest of what you said relates at all to what I said, though.

[up][up] You're forgetting that the Androids from the main timeline are a lot stronger than the ones from Future Trunks' timeline. Trunks specifically says as much when he fights Android 18. Also, how he dies has no effect on where he goes.

[up] Yeah, no. Goku's not going to go to Heaven when he has the option to train and fight. We know this for a fact because that's exactly what he did after he died fighting Cell.

edited 29th Apr '15 6:15:54 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15616: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:15:15 PM

Wasn't there a thing where the androids mentioned they were holding back against Trunks and/or Gohan because they thought it was fun?

They have a thing where they like to mess around with their victims first.

17 got a gun just because.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#15617: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:17:52 PM

No. That was never stated anywhere. At least, not in the anime or manga. I mean, they're holding back since they weren't going far enough to kill Gohan or Trunks, yeah, but there's nothing to support them holding back a great deal given how they fight in the main timeline against Vegeta (who's also stronger than Future Trunks).

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15618: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:20:42 PM

I distinctly remember a thing in History of Trunks where Gohan says he's a lot stronger now, and he knows how strong they are, and he's going to finally beat them. Because Zenkai.

Then they tell him that up to that point they've been holding back and going easy on him this entire time.

I think 17 specifically said that he'd been using "less than half" of his full strength the entire time.

Then they kill him.

...Or, maybe it was in the manga chapter History of Trunks was based on.

Other than that I think you're wrong and it was stated everywhere? And that 17 and 18 held back a lot in the main timeline too because they just didn't feel like killing the fighters? And were more interested in Goku in any case?

edited 29th Apr '15 6:26:07 PM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#15619: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:26:18 PM

Yeah, that definitely exists. It was in the special chapter that "History of Trunks" is based on.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#15620: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:26:28 PM

I haven't seen the unabridged version of History of Trunks in forever so I don't know anything about that.

What I do know, however, was that Future Gohan should have been at only around half of his original strength when he lost his arm. When Cell broke his counterpart's arm, he lost about half of his strength so there's no reason to assume it doesn't apply here as well.

Also, this still leaves the question as to whether or not History of Trunks is even canon. I think it is but I'm not sure.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15621: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:27:45 PM

I don't think arms and power levels work that way, and the reason he lost that much strength in the main timeline was because he used a lot of energy saving Vegeta's worthless ass when Cell caught them all unprepared. And also defense and pain use up a little energy.

In the future timeline he'd had like a week or so to recover. And medical treatment. In the main timeline he had to keep fighting right then. There's kind of a major difference in circumstances there. And an obvious one.

I mean, yeah, his other arm was useful for things in fighting, but it wouldn't have had his power level go down.

And he almost died, so Zenkai. He said he got a zenkai and felt stronger, so.

His power level went up.

edited 29th Apr '15 6:34:33 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#15622: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:35:44 PM

Gohan lost half of his energy because he'd just tanked a blast from a Cell who was much more powerful than the one that couldn't actually harm him...

... And there's the fact that there's precedence for the improved Super Saiyan forms to drain energy like crazy, so it's likely SSJ 2 was already taking its toll on Gohan.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#15623: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:37:05 PM

I don't think Gohan even really tried to block that hit. Kind of cocky on his part.

He didn't try hard enough.

...I don't know why that sort of thing happens when they can sense each other's energy, but.

Also, the idea that losing arms decreases your power level by half.

Well, it's not what Raditz says in that fight.

Or it means that the special beam cannon would have been 2600 normally.

edited 29th Apr '15 6:39:11 PM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#15624: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:38:40 PM

He kinda had his hands full at the time.

I don't think he could block the hit. He was trying to get himself and Vegeta out of the way at the same time, and dropped the ball.

Classic Gohan.tongue

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#15625: Apr 29th 2015 at 6:39:06 PM

Wasn't Gohan also holding back due to low confidence/not wanting to damage Earth?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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