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I like Goku. Much as he's been bashed lately, I like that he's not actually self righteous like some of the Shonen Protagonist he's inspired.
Gohan is the one character in the series that has come full circle. We watched him as an infant live in the messed up world of Dragon Ball. He spent the majority of his time training when all his mom wanted him to do was be a scholar. Gohan met both expectations of his parents. He got incredibly powerful like Goku wanted, enough to save the Earth once or twice. For his mom, he married a pretty hot chick, had a child and is now living happily ever after as a scholar.
Not only that, Toriyama gave him the dream of all writers. In Dragon Ball Online, Gohan wrote his magnum opus explaining Ki control to regular humans so that they could all revel in martial arts, train, and make an entire race of people that are at least SSJ 1 power level and are capable of protecting the planet THEMSELVES. Gohan doesn't need to remain powerful to be a good person. Especially with Goku and Vegeta seemingly not aging and ascending to God level.
edited 28th Apr '15 1:55:26 PM by VeryMelon
I always figured if Gohan had been the hero the Dragon Balls wouldn't be used as much since i'm guessing less people would die. He seems like the type to care more about casualties than getting to kick strong ass. Might make for boring fights though. I'll always prefer Goku as the hero since I like him better.
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So all it took for Earthlings to stop sucking was a book. That's the power of reading kids! And the fact that all humans were descended from Goku and Vegeta or something, right? Is that true or complete bull?
edited 28th Apr '15 1:42:26 PM by Raven666
What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.The problem isn't that Gohan is a shitty fighter, it's that his heart isn't in the game.
Goku is driven to get stronger and fight strong guys by his motivation, which is to get stronger and fight strong guys. He's had an interest in fighting since he was a child, which was cultivated in the crucible of Kame-sennin's training; his first master taught him from an early age that there will ALWAYS be someone stronger no matter how good you are, so NEVER stop training, NEVER stop improving. He took that lesson to heart, and just kept right on striving to overcome even the strongest of rivals.
Vegeta, meanwhile, is motivated by the complete and utter shattering of his egotism. He lived most of his life secure in the knowledge that he was the best thing ever only to have that confidence stripped from him by Goku rapidly outpacing him through hard work and diligence. Although Vegeta would murder you for saying it, Goku is kind of a role model for him, an ever-ascending goal motivating him to keep climbing higher and higher, his efforts rewarded by those brief moments when he surpasses Goku and gets to stand at the top of the mountain, before Goku flies past him and he has to knuckle down and start working again.
Both of these characters are built for this lifestyle. Goku's central motivation is to be the best there ever was, and Vegeta's is to keep up with and/or surpass Goku. They made a choice to be Goku and Vegeta. Gohan never got a choice.
Gohan was introduced to fighting when he was 4 years old and he hated every moment of it. Piccolo abducted him and whipped him into shape to prepare for the Saiyans, a conflict which Gohan choked horribly at the start of and got Piccolo killed as a consequence, because he was 4 years old and terrified. Gohan wasn't born with the Saiyan lust for battle, and that's why he stopped training twice; because he doesn't want this life.
Pretty much. The secrets of ki control are just that: secret. Kame-sennin's Kamehameha was considered an incredible technique at the start of the series, and we see in each Tenkaichi Budokai how the audience reacts to the wild and amazing displays of ki powers the characters produce. Mr. Satan rose to publicity by downplaying those very same powers as well.
People don't know this shit because no one has ever documented it before. Being able to fly and shoot energy beams is a rare and special power solely because there's nobody teaching it. There's no reason why Farmer With Shotgun couldn't have a battle power of 3,000 if he had a mentor willing to train him in ki control and breaking his limits, and the will to learn.
edited 28th Apr '15 1:47:39 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
I wanna be the very best Like no one ever was To punch them is my real test To fight them is my cause
I will travel across the land Searching far and wide More people to beat up I've got to kick their ass!
I'd do the whole song, but i'm still tired from work and this isn't even that good.
edited 28th Apr '15 1:47:59 PM by Raven666
What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.Goku and Vegeta's status as main fighter's is nothing like Piccolo and Gohan's relationship.
For starters, they weren't always the main fighters. The manga shifted that status quo a lot, and it's only after the end of the manga that things stagnated. It is not their thing.
You can also easily handle more than two main fighters, so making someone else as strong or stronger isn't necessarily going to supplant them.
But even if they are replaced in that role, it's not going to damage anything. Those two can easily continue their lifestyles without being the lead focus. Not being the ones to protect Earth would give them more freedom to go off and train with Whis or whatever else.
Goku spent the earlier parts of the Boo arc being more of a mentor figure than a fighter and it suited him well.
Finally, the role of most other characters is still nothing more than "fighter" if they appear at all. Then all they contribute is jobbing for Goku and Vegeta.
You don't need an entire supporting cast of jobbers to hype the characters we already knew were more important. It'd be a lot easier to swallow if they could actually give a meaningful non-combat role to Gohan or Piccolo but they haven't. So if the writers insist on keeping them as fighters, at least make them good at it.
@Lion I also like Goku. One problem I have though, is despite not being the righteous hero he still gets treated by one with the other characters practically worshipping him. It's not a good combination.
edited 28th Apr '15 2:12:07 PM by Saiga
Gohan is a great character, but he's not suited as the MAIN character. And that's for one simple reason. Dragon Ball is a show primarily about fighting. But Gohan doesn't want to fight.
That's why Goku as a main character works so well - fights just happen around him, and he's always eager to participate. Would any other character try to fight Freeza on Namek? Probably not. Goku was completely outclassed, and surely he knew that.
@Saiga: I dunno, people chew him out enough. Remember when everyone ignored Bulma's suggestions to kill Dr. Gero and she was like "You don't need to listen to these idiots, everyone!". Remember when Piccolo told him off for making Gohan fight? Or what about when Vegeta started yelling at him for not saving their kids from the planet's explosion?
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!The characters don't think Goku is flawless.
However, they do believe that in the end, he'll come through and save everyone. Just like he has every other time shit hit the fan.
That's why they're willing to accomodate and trust him, even past the point when people just wouldn't anymore.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariSo are the subtitles on Hulu wrong or does the Japanese Z opening really mention training a Dinosaur to ride atop a ball? It just seems weird to randomly mention ice thawing and a Dinosaur riding balls. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention and it does make sense in the context of the theme.
What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.Yep, that's Cha la head cha la. It's total gibberish.
Abridged jokes on it when Goku names a bird Toriyama during the Cooler movie.
- GOKU: Go, Toriyama, and teach a dinosaur to ride a ball.
This later comes back.
- ANDROID 16: Hello, little bird. What is your name? Toriyama? Yes, I would love to see your dinosaur. It does what?!
edited 28th Apr '15 2:48:26 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.And what Saiga said about Dragon Ball is what ultimately bugs me about the series. Its a Fighting Series at its core and that's always going to be the primary focus. So characters that aren't as strong as The Hero(and his rival in usual cases) are going to quickly be have demoted screen time, because there's no real relevant role for them to have that doesn't involve fighting to focus on. So yea, what if Gohan is the smartest character, what does that mean in the long run?
Its just an extreme pet peeve I have with these series.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I don't buy that for a second. Plenty of heroes across fiction don't like to fight, and still make great lead fighters. As I've said before, a dislike of fighting could make Gohan an even better hero as he'd take things more seriously. Like the pragmatic Future Trunks.
At the very least, some balance in the ideologies of the main fighters would work.
Bulma brought that up that alternative before Goku shot it down. Once Goku weighed in the decision was final.
Piccolo chewing out Goku was bullshit, because he criticised the wrong things. Goku had to have Gohan fight Cell, it was the actions surrounding it that were wrong. Then later, Goku admits he didn't try and beat Boo and instead opted at screaming at his even younger son to man up and fight Boo. Piccolo praised this.
Vegeta was chewing out Goku for not taking the most practical option, because Goku's guilt caused him to save a bystander instead. That is not calling out Goku's poisonous side.
Don't get me wrong. I'd TOTALLY watch a show starring Gohan. It just wouldn't be like Dragon Ball Z. It'd be...basically, it'd be like the 2nd Japanese opening. If you compare that to Cha-La-Head-Cha-La, it's VERY different. And while I'd enjoy that show, I don't know if young boys necessarily would.
And didn't Goku originally tell Piccolo he couldn't have beaten Majin Buu, even with SSJ 3? And Toriyama later retconned that when he decided to bring Goku back.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!It could easily be DBZ with Gohan as the lead. It already has been at one point. Dragon Ball has many different aspects, shuffling the importance of them won't change what it is at its core.
Goku doesn't say that. He tells Piccolo he wasn't sure he could beat Boo (a lie) but then adds that he didn't even try to beat him.
Here are my thoughts:
- As mentioned, they should just let Goku and Vegeta be the strongest in the universe. Let them go train with Whis and be Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Legend Perfect Ultimate Mystic Super Saiyan 5's or whatever.
- While they're off being the ultimate universe warriors, shift the focus to someone else. Let's have stories about Krillin's new police job. Let's see stories about Gohan protecting the world from space invaders. Goten and Trunks as teenagers, Pan growing up, Piccolo and Yamcha and Dende and Android 18 etc. etc.
- De-escalate the conflicts. The villain of Krillin's policework doesn't need to be more powerful than Majin Buu. The space invaders don't need to be Super Saiyan Golden God Frieza Ultimate Form. Sometimes less is more, and frankly, Goku and Vegeta have already surpassed God, then surpassed the gods of their setting, then surpassed the god-killing abomination, then surpassed the God of Destruction who is more god than any god seen before including God; seriously, there is nowhere left to escalate.
Goku and Vegeta have outgrown their universe AND their cosmology, and if we keep trying to outstrip the previous villain, in five years' time we're going to see "Goku and Vegeta versus Annihilor, the Ultimate God of Super Dimension God-Killing Gods made from the gods of twelve universes fused together and then transformed into a x500 Super God Super form!" We have already entered the realm of gibberish with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan; it's time to let the need for Serial Escalation go before Goku and Vegeta wind up fighting in four-dimensional white space against villains whose every motion causes a Big Bang and who attack by detonating a billion universes.
As I've stated before, Goku is perfectly willing to be written out. He just needs the writer to let him. The rest of the cast didn't stop being relevant; Goku and Vegeta became irrelevant when they became too powerful to write a coherent plot for, and trying to catch up the rest of the cast to them would only make the issue worse.
edited 28th Apr '15 3:14:28 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.At this point, Goku and Vegeta are hyperbole.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Goku could take a break and go on a second honeymoon with Chi Chi.
Vegeta and Bulma could have the same idea.
Then things would go to hell because Chi-Chi mentions it to Bulma and she decides to make a spaceship built for four. And they go through the universe with.
...I mean, I've heard people say that Vegeta doesn't like Chi-Chi but I can't remember the two of them interacting. Ever.
Either way that's a trip that wouldn't be great.
I mean, Goku might not be able to tell anything's wrong.
