Even Z took breaks from "The Fighting Fighters Fight Stuff" for building the characters and relationships. Piccolo is iconic for his relationship with Gohan. Yamcha fails at everything he does but is much beloved by the fanbase for his extreme competence at being the Butt-Monkey. Bulma has never been a relevant fighter for her entire character history and yet is one of the most important characters in the entire cast. Mr. Satan saved the world through being a fame whore.
Yes, nobody gets to match Goku and Vegeta when it comes to fighting, because that's Goku and Vegeta's roles. Goku is the ultimate fighter, Vegeta is his second. That's their thing. Let them have their thing. You wouldn't take away Piccolo's relationship with Gohan and be like, "Yamcha's Gohan's surrogate father now!" When a machine that punches a hole in physics needs building, you wouldn't have Tien build it.
Goku and Vegeta are the lead fighters because that's what their characters are. Their entire existence is dedicated to being the lead fighters. Getting stronger and fighting dudes has been Goku's central storyline for almost as long as we've known him, and keeping up with Goku has been Vegeta's since Namek. That's their story. The rest of the cast have their own stories, and those stories are just as valid.
This fandom fixates too much on who could kick whose ass. When it comes to battle powers and the tiered fighting structure, I will math you under the table, but battle power =/= character value. Krillin never needed to be able to punch out Majin Buu to have a fulfilling and satisfying character arc. Why does Goten?
edited 28th Apr '15 8:45:16 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.That's why I'm glad Goku and Vegeta left everyone else in the dust. With the pretense of being relevant to protecting the universe gone, the entire rest of the cast is freed up for other things while I enjoy Goku and Vegeta fighting the Big Bad.
I can understand the negativity. I also have my doubts about certain things happening, but I still want to see how this plays out.
This is a full anime, so there might be more room for other stuff. It'd be great if Toriyama was aware of some of the problems of the series and tried to correct them. I doubt it, but I'd rather try and be optimistic.
At the very least, well hopefully get some good fights in this show.
One Strip! One Strip!
Well, a big complaint is that no-one expects anyone else to be relevant, even with Toriyama involved.
And it has some validity. He did short-change Gohan in favor of bringing back Goku, and how many characters just stopped being relevant after a while?
One Strip! One Strip!It seems Toriyama has changed. For a while, he seemed to want nothing to do with Dragon Ball. I guess the royalty money from it ran out or is not enough anymore.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariGolden Great Cyan Ape 4 when?
edited 28th Apr '15 12:48:45 PM by TheAirman
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyAnd it has some validity. He did short-change Gohan in favor of bringing back Goku, and how many characters just stopped being relevant after a while?
Yeah, but he short-changed Gohan on grounds that Gohan just wasn't suited to being the Ultimate Warrior of the Universe the way Goku and Vegeta are, and he was right to do so, because Gohan isn't. Gohan's best moments in the Buu arc are at the beginning of it, trying to fit into school, creating his superhero identity, interacting with Videl, etc. That's where he belongs, exploring what it means to be both Saiyan and Human.
Gohan never wanted to fight for fighting's sake. He never wanted to be the guy that strives for newer, more powerful gods to break the spines of. And frankly, there's only so many times you can play the "Gohan quits because he hates this shit, but suddenly a Deus ex Machina makes him the strongest warrior anyway" card before it gets contrived, and it's already been played twice.
Gohan doesn't want to be that guy, and Toriyama's stopped trying to shoehorn him into being that guy. That doesn't prohibit Gohan from having engaging stories to tell. Not everyone in the Justice League has to be Superman.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'm definitely excited for this, but i'm prepared to be disappointed. I kinda hope Towa, Mira, and/or Demigra show up but at the same time feel like they'd get there asses kicked way to easily. Maybe they could be the new Pilaf Gang! That was a joke. But we need the Pilaf Gang, I don't care if they show up just for some quick gags, Mai looks decent, Shu is awesome - he's a fucking ninja dog! That's awesome! - and Pilaf's hat is adorable. Plus they're so ineffective that it's funny. Their failure amuses me.
As for more bingo, I think that's going to go straight into Annoying Territory soon, if it hasn't already. It's like the whole 'The cake is a lie!' shit. It was funny, until it got annoying.
I feel like Piccolo would be Batman or something. I don't really know why
edited 28th Apr '15 1:30:13 PM by Raven666
What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.So when did you guys decide Gohan is too shitty of a fighter to be The Hero : I still maintain he's a far better character than Goku or Vegeta and still would have preferred him to be the eventual main character.
But clearly Toriyama disagrees so what the fuck do I know about anything.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Towa and Mira are very interesting villains who break the mold of new bad guy just being stronger than the last one, what with trying to change history and stuff. They are crafty is what I'm saying.
Since the beginning? Gohan never striked me as a good replacement for Goku, and I found Toriyama's attempts at so, ill conceived to say the least.
edited 28th Apr '15 1:35:01 PM by Shlugo_the_great

And playing Bingo while babysitting Pan.