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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#14851: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:19:26 PM

Eeeeexcept the Galick Gun and basically all ki attacks are stronger than the fighter's Power Level would suggest. That's why Piccolo's Makankousappou could kill Raditz or why Krillin's Kienzan could hurt Nappa and Freeza or why Vegeta's Final Flash could hurt Perfect Cell.

It's usually a feat when the fighter can kick their opponent's ass without using ki attacks.

edited 15th Apr '15 6:20:38 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#14852: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:20:31 PM

Or Vegeta, for how certain he was, was wrong, or was just planning to leave a big enough dent in the earth that the atmosphere would end up unlivable.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#14853: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:21:57 PM

No, I'm pretty sure that attack could destroy the Earth. It's not like destroying a planet is an incredible feat in DBZ. And Vegeta has undoubtedly destroyed planets before even discounting filler.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14854: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:23:54 PM

That's why Piccolo's Makankousappou could kill Raditz

Piccolo's power level explicitly rose to 1300 when he did that!

why Krillin's Kienzan could hurt Nappa and Freeza

But the kienzan is based more on sharpness than power!

That's the point!

edited 15th Apr '15 6:24:44 PM by unnoun

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14855: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:26:04 PM

He's slightly off on what Roshi's power level was, but the calculations are still legit.

edited 15th Apr '15 6:33:30 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14856: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:29:07 PM

Those numbers came out of nowhere!

If there's one thing I hate worse than numbers it's meaningless numbers!

AKA WHY I HATE POWER LEVELS SO MUCH IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE!

ARGHLBLRGHALRHRGA!!!!!

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14857: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:32:26 PM

Uhm, maybe you shouldn't talk about power levels then. You react in one of two ways consistently:

  • "I don't understand power levels, therefore they are awful and you shouldn't talk about them."
  • "Power levels ruin everything! Stop talking about them."

You can simply not participate and wait until the conversation moves on. I've had to do that multiple times.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14858: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:33:49 PM

That video has no fucking calculations.

None of those power levels come from anything. Roshi's is wrong. Vegeta's is wrong.

The mass for Namek was made up.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14859: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:38:16 PM

Uhm, no. Roshi's actual battle power is 139, which is pretty close to what he calculated in the video. Then using the mass of the moon, the person extrapolated (assuming Roshi's power level is the bare minimum needed to destroy our moon) and then applied that to Earth. He was not saying Vegeta's power level is 10,000; he was saying 10,000 is what's required to blow up an Earth-sized planet. Not that hard to follow.

I don't know how he got Namek and Kaioshin Planets' masses, however. He's right with Planet Vegeta's though.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#14860: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:39:45 PM

Goku's power level is Ñ Planetexpodies.

I have a message from another time...
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14861: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:41:49 PM

I love how our universe is over a million times larger than theirs.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14862: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:43:28 PM

[up][up][up]What!? Calculations!? In!? That!? Video!?

All it says is "Mass: 00123"

Then "Battle Power: 123" for the moon.

The moon's mass is, in fact, 0.0123 Earths, but, see, that's not absolutely the same thing as how much energy is needed to destroy the one or the other because the math for that has to do with exponents and crap. Joules. Energy. Force. Density. Gravitational pull.

The Earth is 2000 times harder to destroy and requires 2000 times more energy to destroy than the moon. That is actual math based on actual physics that I have linked earlier.

123 x 2000 equals 246,000, not 10,000, so that's a significant flaw in the video.

For fuck's sake, all he says in the video is "I'll take a guess".

There are no calculations! Tell me where, in the timeline, or the description, or the fucking comments he makes a single calculation.

Otherwise, most of those numbers came from a google search of how many times Earth's mass a thing is, and the rest came from somebody's colon.

...Which is admittedly where most facts about dragon ball came from, but still!

There weren't even any equations!

For fuck's sake, if we're going to talk about a dumb fighting manga using arbitrary mathematics, at least let the maths be done properly. I don't think I can take it otherwise.

edited 15th Apr '15 6:53:18 PM by unnoun

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#14863: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:49:04 PM

Hate to interrupt the powuh levels discussion but, Xenoverse has sold 2.5 million copies.

Xenoverse 2 is definitely gonna happen next year. No doubt about it now.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14864: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:49:28 PM

Please interrupt the power levels discussion.

Indefinitely.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14865: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:52:51 PM

This is tiresome.

Firstly, follow the video. Pick up a pen and paper. He doesn't go through the math in the video, because that would make the thing unnecessarily long. If he used Roshi's actual power level of 139, then you'd only need a power level of around 11,000 to be able to blow up Earth. That number is far below Vegeta's battle power when he fired his Galick Gun.

Secondly, this is a pointless area of discussion because, and it has been noted several times, that dragonball doesn't follow our laws of physics. Giant energy beams aren't wasting energy because that's how ki works. Goku can barely lift 40 tonnes in base, but with a measly 400x boost in power he's strong enough to punch through a planet 10x as dense as Earth. What does that prove? That dragonball doesn't give a shit about real world physics.

Thirdly, chill out, guy.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#14866: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:53:52 PM

All numbers are made up.

aka Power levels are bullshit

aka Bellisario's Maxim

edited 15th Apr '15 6:54:28 PM by TheAirman

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14867: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:54:26 PM

[up][up] ...she's a girl.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#14868: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:55:21 PM

Where did I put my Time Machine?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14869: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:55:44 PM

What! Math!?

He outright says he was guessing!

Goku can barely lift 40 tonnes in base, but with a measly 400x boost in power he's strong enough to punch through a planet 10x as dense as Earth.

Goku never punches through a planet!

Thirdly, chill out, guy.

I am not a guy!

edited 15th Apr '15 6:58:10 PM by unnoun

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14870: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:55:59 PM

[up][up][up][up]Except power levels are consistently consistent throughout the time they were relevant. The person with the higher power level always won. A person with a lower power level consistently was unable to do anything against someone stronger. That's as consistent as you can hope to be.

The only outlier may be Vegeta defeating transformed Zarbon, and it's only a theory that Vegeta was weaker than him in their second fight, as far as I know.

[up]The video says he took a guess on the density of some DBZ planets. And by "some" it means "Namek and Kaioshin world". And Goku smashed through Kaio's planet in Battle of Gods when he missed Beerus.

I have no idea how Saiga does this without ragequitting.

edited 15th Apr '15 6:58:48 PM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#14871: Apr 15th 2015 at 6:57:44 PM

[up]I honestly have no idea who you're responding to anymore.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14872: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:00:16 PM

[up]Your post, guy. Murasaki has too many students in this thread.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14873: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:02:46 PM

You mean brothers, right?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14874: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:04:05 PM

...I can't believe I forgot Battle of Gods.

I'm gonna be honest, the King Kai's planet part of the movie and the Pilaf gang parts of the movie are the parts I remember the least.

I really liked the party though. And the fight at the party.

...I still don't understand how there can be calculations as stupidly simple as "the power level to destroy a thing is equal to however many times Earth's mass the thing is times 10000" because that is some really asinine calculations.

Like everything to do with power levels but especially that!

God I wish Saiga or Tobias were here right now. Both of them are at least interesting to talk to and they can do maths.

edited 15th Apr '15 7:08:41 PM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#14875: Apr 15th 2015 at 7:09:39 PM

Power levels are arbitrary in that Toriyama did have to make up the numbers himself so he could do whatever he wanted with that. They aren't, however, "bullshit" just because you don't like the idea of putting into a numerical value a character's strength.

I honestly never understood all the bitching about power levels for this series, or in other series that have them, if the same people who are complaining about them think they're ultimately meaningless.

I can understand not liking the concept on certain grounds but some many people act like the mere concept ruins entire fights.

edited 15th Apr '15 7:10:05 PM by LSBK


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