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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14401: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:21:01 PM

Yeah, four pages back. Probably would have missed it because of the argument going on about Goku/Vegeta and Gohan.

Here it is, below:

I think it should have ended with Gohan defeating Bootenks, but I'm unsure of how. I like Rocketman's idea but I need more detail than that to support it. Have you thought about the actual fight choreography at all, Rocketman?

I had thought of Gohan outsmarting Bootenks by goading him into a beam struggle right before his time was up and then wiping him away (and having Dende restore him during the beam struggle to hold out the remaining time), but that might be too similar to Gohan vs Cell.

The other idea I had was for Chiaotzu to show up with Tenshinhan, then Boo absorbs him instead of Gohan and uses the psychic powers to keep winning against Gohan. He decides to absorb Tenshinhan to see if he'll get any special abilities from him, Ten does the barrier and goes inside, removes the pods, and Gohan defeats Boo. I had liked this idea for an ending but it required a lot of convenience to work, like Boo only absorbing Chiaotzu when he knows nothing of either fighter and then absorbing Ten when he's already winning. Plus Ten having the barrier and knowing to use it. I also feel it gives Ten undue importance since he only just really showed up in this arc and was never that major.

A modified version of that idea I came up with was for Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu to be absorbed, and Goten and Trunks be the wins to free them inside Boo. In this idea, after defusing Goten and Trunks would be freed instead of getting individual pods, because Boo's absorption simply didn't account for the splitting. I liked Goku and Vegeta's exploration of Boo's inside so this would be a way to salvage that idea, with the boys filling their roles. While Chiatozu-Boo is holding Gohan back, Goten and Trunks make their way to the other pods and pull Tenshinhan/Piccolo down. Boo immediately creates the mini-Boo to stop them from getting Chiaotzu, but he can't focus on Gohan that way and gets attacked on the outside which breaks his concentration on the mini-Boo. Realizing he can't stop Chiaotzu from being freed, he paralyses Gohan once again and tries to immediately absorb him so he'll be free to pursue the boys, but Chiaotzu's pod gets pulled in time for Gohan to escape the absorption. Goten and Trunks then try to escape from Boo's body while Boo vs Gohan resumes.

Due to his injuries, Gohan is unable to finish Boo off, and the fight continues evenly at first but his stamina eventually wears down giving Boo the upper hand. Goten and Trunks comically get lost inside Boo, and wind up at the pods again, this time finding Good Boo's pod. I forgot to mention this until now, but I would have added an earlier scene during that 1 hour wait where Satan tries to convince them to save Boo because of his good side. Goten decides to pull down this Good Boo, and Evil Boo reverts to Pure Evil Boo just before finishing off Gohan. Gohan's taken too much damage for this to help him however, and when Goten and Trunks get free they find Gohan about to be finished off by Pure Evil Boo. Goten rushes Boo to be easily smacked down, the same happens for Trunks when he tries to aid Goten. At this point even Satan tries to help, but Pure Evil Boo nearly kills him before Good Boo comes to and saves him, much like in the fight with Pure Boo.

Things go the same as the fight with Pure Boo, with Good Boo getting beaten up and realizing he can't hold out much longer. During this time, Dende manages to heal Gohan, who resumes full power and steps in to swiftly defeat Pure Evil Boo. I'm not sure what to go with next:

1) Gohan beats down Pure Evil Boo, then wipes him out with a ki blast 2) Pure Evil Boo tries to self destruct and take the Earth out, like Gohan mentioned him possibly trying earlier. Gohan is able to interrupt his attempt and launch him into space with a Kamehameha before he explodes. 3) Pure Evil Boo and Good Boo have a similar connection to God and Piccolo Daimao, so Gohan can't kill one without the other. After beating up Pure Evil Boo and having him at Gohan's mercy, Satan begs him not to kill Boo, so after some consideration Gohan makes Good Boo absorb Pure Evil Boo and gives the warning about not getting mad. This option was mainly here for the potential of post-manga material, it'd just mean a potentially stronger Boo as an ally.

I guess in this scenario you could easily remove the Tenshinhan/Chiaotzu absorption stuff, and just have the sequence be Bootenks defuses without Gohan being healed by Dende > Gohan's injured enough for Evil Boo to still be winning > the rest of it. Now I'm not sure if I'd keep the Tenshinhan/Chiaotzu stuff, it depends on how long the fight would be with or without that part added. I'd like it to be aboooout the same length as the Goku vs Vegeta fight. I think having Ten and Chiaotzu show up and get absorbed might be a little random, and it might look bad if they actually made the fight worse for Gohan, but it would add some variety to the fight and might be pretty cool to see.

I like this version because Goten and Trunks get to be relevant without Gotenks (since they've still got that 1 hour waiting period) and you can explore their characters more with having them make important decisions inside Boo. As characters introduced into the final arc, I think they need to be pretty relevant to it, this is a good way to achieve that.

I was tossing up a bit whether Gohan should have this much help defeating Boo, though, since a criticism was that Gohan hadn't beaten anyone major on his own and needed help without Cell. However Goku relied on help from others a lot, and this time Goku's not providing any support. Goten and Trunks are part of the new generation with Gohan so having them contribute is a good idea in my book, and I believe Mr Boo deserves to have a hand in defeating his evil side.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with this idea actually. The new generation together defeat Evil Boo, and Mr Boo/Satan get to keep most of their cool stuff from the Pure Boo fight. Sick.

tl;dr - Gohan vs Boo is the final battle, Boo's fusion wears off but the fight still continues and Goten/Trunks/Boo contribute to the victory.

edited 11th Apr '15 5:23:18 PM by Saiga

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#14402: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:21:54 PM

I love the pages where unnamed moves are "named" as whatever thing the character was shouting at the time.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14403: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:24:25 PM

To be fair, they started that from copying video games doing the same thing. Although the video games don't go as far as to say that's the actual technique name.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#14404: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:27:46 PM

I dunno about how I'd change Buu. Because I LOVE all the stuff before Majin Buu shows up, and even the stuff up to Vegeta's sacrifice. The only thing I can think of is to have Gotenks fail less often and get rid of Ultimate Gohan completely. Make it so he actually DID die.

That, or have Goku manage to grab Goten, Trunks and Gohan instead of Mr. Satan. Everyone is fighting Kid Buu, but he keeps regenerating (like always). So they try to use the Spirit Bomb, and Mr. Satan, back at home, realises what's going on when Fat Buu interrupts or something. So he goes around the Earth and convinces everyone to lend their energy. And also maybe Videl helps too because she recognises Gohan.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#14405: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:28:42 PM

[up][up][up][up] I like that idea. As much as I hate Gohan - and i'm starting to hate him less after thinking about why I actually hate him - I have to admit that he got screwed over so letting him kick the big bad's ass is a good thing. I also support giving Goten and trunks more relevance. I also support a spin-off with Goten and Trunks.

[up] But, wouldn't that make Goku look like a good father by saving his kids over the normal human who deserves to die once (just so he could fit in better though, everyone's died before so he should too.)? I thought the fandom loved saying how Goku was a horrible father? Which i'll say right now, I don't really see. He isn't winning father of the year but he's not a horrible father.

edited 11th Apr '15 5:32:29 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#14406: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:28:52 PM

[up][up] I like that idea.

edited 11th Apr '15 5:31:50 PM by unnoun

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#14407: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:29:04 PM

I'd definitely keep the Spirit Bomb. If only for the cameo-fest.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#14408: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:42:38 PM

I'd change the Buu arc by having Vegito destroy Buutenks, then using the Namekian dragonballs to revive Goten, Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan. Then some Old Kai magic bullshit to split them back up into Vegeta and Goku.

But that's only if one must change the Buu Arc. I'm completely okay with how it turned out.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#14409: Apr 11th 2015 at 5:44:37 PM

[up] Or, even better, use Gogeta instead. An easy way to remove two plot devices at once.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14410: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:16:29 PM

@Saiga You are aware that Super Saiyan power card actually uses the state Goku was in when he fought the Ginyu Force in Hell as its image, right? Same golden aura, same Super Saiyan-like hair but black, same everything. The fact of the matter is, that this just shows that the game developers admit, at least on some level, that this was a thing that existed.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#14411: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:20:59 PM

I love the pages where unnamed moves are "named" as whatever thing the character was shouting at the time.

I think that the fun thing about the Dragonball Wiki to be honest. I can only think of Trunks' Change the Future as an example right now but in general doing stuff like that is okay in my book.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14412: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:24:39 PM

Hair standing up is the only similar thing. That's not a golden aura, it's swirls from the golden ki attack in his hand. He also doesn't have the lighter shade on his gi that Super Saiyan and the filler scene have.

Hair standing up is just as likely to be him mid-transformation, because that cards particular gimmick is that Goku will transform to a different Super Saiyan form depending on how well you execute his ability. Furthermore, the in-game model has him in base form completely.

So no, it doesn't show anything like that. One similarity in hair doesn't mean everything is connected or that the artist for that card (who is different from the developers) is even thinking of that filler.

edited 11th Apr '15 6:26:15 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14413: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:43:14 PM

[up] Dude, sometimes a box is just a box, you don't need to over-complicate things like this; on some level they are admitting this existed, but they also don't have a model for it because they don't make stuff for filler transformations, which is why False Super Saiyan and the Super Kaio-ken don't have models either. Plus, these are the same people who made Super Saiyan 4 Broly, so obviously their thought process is a little out there.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14414: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:49:24 PM

I'm not over complicating anything. Suggesting a bunch of unrelated things are connected is what complicates things.

Super Kaio-ken and False Super Saiyan aren't even on the card art for Heroes, so that is a terrible example.

Nothing has been admitted anywhere. You can take some small resemblance in a card artwork as an admission of some other thing.

Could that hairstyle be a reference on the artists' part to that filler scene? It's possible. Is it? We don't know. We can't say.

That's not complicated at all.

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#14415: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:53:55 PM

I'm hoping this turns into a nice, long, "discussion". I brought food.

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1q8adIroQB2iyz88GQ6iKXdmXRIHxj

edited 11th Apr '15 6:59:46 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14416: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:57:21 PM

I will say that the thought processes of these guys are weird, since these are the same people who made "Super Pikkon" a thing, and who made Time Breaker Bardock potentially as powerful as Omega Shenron, if not stronger, since he needed Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta to fight him, and even then he could still go Super Saiyan and blow even him out of the water. No telling how powerful they plan on making Mira if this is a thing.

edited 11th Apr '15 6:59:38 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#14417: Apr 11th 2015 at 6:58:06 PM

I hate it when my food is more realistic than me.

I have a message from another time...
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14418: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:00:38 PM

I just noticed that, and it looks so weird.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#14419: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:02:32 PM

Indeed, but i'm more interested in their Hot Dog and Hamburger regenerating after each bite. Endless food...And it'd be all mine.

edited 11th Apr '15 7:03:46 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#14420: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:06:18 PM

I think about regenerating foot way too often. "Endless bucket of chicken" came up a lot in highschool games of would-you-rather.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#14421: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:08:42 PM

I'm scared to ask about the context of that, if only because that game can be pretty weird.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#14422: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:11:09 PM

When I played similar games somehow it always ended up with pants less women. Sometimes pants less men were involved but more often than not it was women. Or world domination, I always went for that.

You know what was awesome? When Bulma defeated that Pirate Robot by driving a goddamn truck into it. Goku and Krillin can't beat it so Bulma kills it by ramming it into the water with a truck, then it explodes. But then it survives. Still, awesome point for Bulma.

edited 11th Apr '15 7:16:47 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#14423: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:15:40 PM

A truly endless bucket of chicken can only lead to Spiral Nemesis.

I have a message from another time...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#14424: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:17:56 PM

You could end world hunger, at least until the heavy production of previously nonexistant matter inevitably drowns the planet in a wave of physics. Hooray, magic solutions to mundane problems!

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#14425: Apr 11th 2015 at 7:19:29 PM

But, what about those that don't like chicken? What'll be done about them?

edited 11th Apr '15 7:20:06 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.

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