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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#13326: Apr 1st 2015 at 6:54:16 AM

[up] Nope. And they never will. And I'm okay with that and I'm not okay with that.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#13327: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:14:55 AM

[up][up] they change as readily as the circumstances that bring them about.

I have a message from another time...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13328: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:30:27 AM

Also, I don't see Krillin telling 18 to protect Marron as the work being sexist. He's just protecting his family. Just because he knows 18 is stronger than him doesn't mean he'd want her out there risking her life.

...which is sexist. Insisting that he must be the one to protect her despite her being significantly more capable than him is, by definition, sexist. The only reason for it to be Krillin protecting 18 rather than 18 protecting Krillin is because 18 is a woman.

Krillin is demonstrating sexism by suggesting itHEY , and the writer is demonstrating sexism by unironically going through with itHEY .

My primary motivation for wanting to play Xenoverse is to play as a female Super Saiyan.

It is every bit as glorious and cathartic as you think it is. grin

Something I've wondered is... Why is Unlock Potential not available for our Mary Sues? It's like, I dunno, kind of the thing you'd expect to have, to give the others a transformation that puts them on an equal level with the Super Saiyans.

Because it's not a transformation. It's not a combat ability at all. Gohan never sat down in the middle of a fight to have a third party unlock his power while his opponent idly waited five feet away for him to finish. Same reason "Train with Kaio-sama" or "Spend some time in the RoSaT" isn't available as a Transformation.

The better question is, why do games keep trying to include it as a Transformation anyway, despite that making no sense?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#13329: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:32:25 AM

Because it's his most powerful state that's activated by trying to become a Super Saiyan. Making it a transformation is the best way to include it.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#13330: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:41:11 AM

[up][up] Guys...

Everything is sexist!

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#13331: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:41:47 AM

[up][up][up]Or Krillin is being driven by the desire to keep the people he loves the most safe? It's a character thing. Also a cultural thing.

"What kind of man lets his family get hurt when he can avoid it?"

It's not like he said, "18, you can't handle this so go protect Marron." From what little context we have, it's more akin to, "18, I'll fight on the frontlines while you keep Marron safe."

[up]When you're on the internet, at least...

edited 1st Apr '15 7:42:11 AM by Cruherrx

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#13332: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:42:56 AM

[up] When you're in life, at least...

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13333: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:45:15 AM

Or Krillin is being driven by the desire to keep the people he loves the most safe? It's a character thing. Also a cultural thing.

"What kind of man lets his family get hurt when he can avoid it?"

It's not like he said, "18, you can't handle this so go protect Marron." From what little context we have, it's more akin to, "18, I'll fight on the frontlines while you keep Marron safe."

Sexism is usually a cultural thing but it's still sexism.

And you put it succinctly. "What kind of MAN". Because this is still thinking in terms of Man and Woman rather than which is the more capable fighter. Krillin is hurting his family by insisting on being the one to fight, because what kind of person abandons their family to a pointless, easily-avoidable death out of a desperate need to validate their masculinity?

Making 18 Stay in the Kitchen is the Patriarchal choice. Letting her fight is the right choice.

edited 1st Apr '15 7:46:02 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#13334: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:47:02 AM

I'm going to hop into my time machine and go forward to where everyone's talking about interesting things again.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#13335: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:51:19 AM

If you thinking in terms of protecting his family either they should both be their with their daughter or they should both be out fighting to cover each others back. Him going while she stays doesn't make sense, but I'm willing to cut him some slack because people usually don't think rationally in situations like this. It's still sexist, though.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#13336: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:51:29 AM

Joke's on you! This is the internet!

Anyway, 18's a better choice for the front lines than Krillin. Also, the only way to keep Marron safe from an enemy who tends to rage quit by blowing up planets is... um... Have Goku IT her to another planet altogether? Would that work?

I have a message from another time...
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#13337: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:53:18 AM

Guys...

Everything is sexist!

When you're on the internet, at least...

When you're in life, at least...

One of the basic truths of feminist critique is that our culture is so horribly, brokenly misogynistic that literally everything in it can be validly subjected to feminist critique.

That is an accurate description of Western and Japanese culture.

Which isn't to say it's true of every culture ever or that it has to be true and cannot or shouldn't be changed.

...Also, with your last one. I kinda hope you don't brush off the concerns of actual women you know in real life that you have spoken to with sound waves. That's a dick move. I can sorta understand why you wouldn't respect me or other women you talk to over the internet, but.

Because it's not a transformation.

It is in Budokai and when you play as Gohan in Xenoverse.

edited 1st Apr '15 7:53:56 AM by unnoun

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#13338: Apr 1st 2015 at 7:55:32 AM

Fuse with Kami is a transformation in Budokai.

Which you can lose if you get knocked down with low enough KI.

Edit;

A thought occurs. Since 17 and 18's energy generators are infinite, is there an upward limit to how much energy they could contribute to a Spirit Bomb?

Or how much energy they could pump into one ki blast ball?

Or how long they could keep a beam going?

edited 1st Apr '15 7:58:04 AM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#13339: Apr 1st 2015 at 8:02:35 AM

So are you purposefully misinterpretating Krillin's character for the sake of your argument, or do you really believe him the type to do that? Because this is the same Krillin that constantly put his life on the line on Namek for Gohan and Bulma. It's just who he is. It isn't about "masculinity," it's about the guy not wanting his wife and daughter getting hurt.

And really, saying "but they don't want to hurt Marron" is not a real defense. When a military launches a missile, do you think they're aiming specifically for Phil from Accounting or the enemy soldiers? Doesn't stop Phil from Accounting from getting caught in the blast and dying. Krillin thinks 18 is better suited for protecting Marron than he is, and knows it's less likely for enemies to get to them there, than it is for them on the battlefield.

And again, we're arguing with absolutely no real context. Aroooooooooooooooooooo

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#13340: Apr 1st 2015 at 8:02:58 AM

[up][up]Which is still pretty dumb in hindsight.

edited 1st Apr '15 8:04:40 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13341: Apr 1st 2015 at 8:04:18 AM

Anyway, 18's a better choice for the front lines than Krillin. Also, the only way to keep Marron safe from an enemy who tends to rage quit by blowing up planets is... um... Have Goku IT her to another planet altogether? Would that work?

That's actually a really good point. Frieza has an established history of planet-killing ragequits. Between the two of them, Krillin and 18, who has a better shot at stopping a planet-busting attack that would kill their daughter no matter where she is or who is with her? The answer may be tremendously obvious.

So are you purposefully misinterpretating Krillin's character for the sake of your argument, or do you really believe him the type to do that? Because this is the same Krillin that constantly put his life on the line on Namek for Gohan and Bulma. It's just who he is. It isn't about "masculinity," it's about the guy not wanting his wife and daughter getting hurt.

The guy who only took up martial arts in the first place to impress women, impressed Kame-sennin with his perversion enough to receive training from him, and allowed Cell to achieve his Perfect Form because his boner interfered with his judgment skills? Yes. Absolutely yes.

And yes, it is about masculinity. Believing that HE must be the one to protect HER and not the other way around is about masculinity. The point isn't that Krillin DOESN'T think of 18 as a helpless damsel that must be protected, the point is that believing that in the first place is wrong.

Krillin is prioritizing his masculinity ahead of 18's incredible battle power by making this choice.

edited 1st Apr '15 8:09:06 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#13342: Apr 1st 2015 at 8:05:14 AM

Go the GT route and have Buu... protect... the noncombatants.

Edit

[up] whoever is actually near Freeza at the time, since Freeza just needs to aim at the planet, not whoever you're trying to protect from the planet buster. So putting 18 near Freeza is the better idea.

I wonder if the energy-drain models could stop a planet-buster blast.

edited 1st Apr '15 8:07:54 AM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#13343: Apr 1st 2015 at 8:29:12 AM

You know, why not just put her on the Lookout?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#13344: Apr 1st 2015 at 8:58:07 AM

Wait, you can punch the Kami out of Piccolo? That's hilarious.

Anyway I don't think trying to protect your much-stronger wife is inherently sexist. People will do anything to protect their loved ones at their own expense, regardless of gender or relative strength. Writing that as an excuse to sideline 18 is sexist writing, however.

TL;DR: Krillin isn't necessarily misogynistic, but the writers are.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#13345: Apr 1st 2015 at 9:00:54 AM

[up]thats a better way of looking at it.

Krillin's intentions aren't inherently sexist, but the plot sure as hell treats it that way.

edited 1st Apr '15 9:02:17 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#13346: Apr 1st 2015 at 9:02:59 AM

Fun thing is, the right thing to do is to... have both of them fight, while leaving Marron in someplace guarded, with Bulma or something like that. It doesn't matter if they die, they can come back. But every mook they kill is one mook less that could go on to hurt Marron (or anyone else, for that matter).

However, let me put this in the simplest terms I can:

Krillin is not so much being sexist as he is being dumber than a bag of rocks.

edited 1st Apr '15 9:04:17 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#13347: Apr 1st 2015 at 9:05:01 AM

Hell, you don't even need to protect Marron, it wouldn't be the first time she's been killed and subsequently revived.

I mean, it would make you pretty craptacular parents to subject your kid to that kind of trauma, but physically speaking all three of you are coming out without a scratch no matter the outcome because Dragon Balls.

edited 1st Apr '15 9:05:53 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13348: Apr 1st 2015 at 9:06:41 AM

Well, if the outcome is that everyone fails and Frieza wins, nobody's coming back.

Which is more reason to put the strongest fighters on the front line. Dragon Ball conflicts have long-since become All or Nothing. Total Annihilation or No Permanent Harm are the only possibilities at this point.

edited 1st Apr '15 9:08:00 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#13349: Apr 1st 2015 at 9:07:14 AM

Which puts us right back at the whole idea of characters who didn't exist before the Namek Saga being Put on a Bus even though many of them are still stronger than the guys who were on Namek.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#13350: Apr 1st 2015 at 9:07:31 AM

[up][up]Ah, true, but Krillin and 18 have no impact on that.

Really, nobody but Goku and sometimes Vegeta have any impact on that.

edited 1st Apr '15 9:08:14 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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