Wouldn't Frieza fit better though, since he absorbs enough evil energy to become the strongest being in the universe. Granted, Frieza does lose to Krillin and Lazuli due to their love, and then Janemba pulls a Black Zetsu on him and uses Frieza's body to remake his.
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!@Sonof Sharknado: Those are interesting ideas! I admit, I like the concept of Cell as a villain too much to remove him entirely. And would Gohan go SSJ 2 or would he be a really powerful SSJ?
It looks like Resurrection F is very...formulaic? There doesn't seem to be any major plot twists - the biggest one was that Freeza had a new form in the first place. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just...another DBZ movie.
Now all we need is a character-driven story. BOG was mostly gag-driven, this one seems to be action-driven...it would be great to have another one like Wrath of the Dragon, except better and with less plot holes.
The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!Once again, I still think it's kinda stupid, but I do agree that between the two of them, 18 is the better choice to protect Marron.
Krillin probably knows he'll get stomped, and even if he has no way of knowing that Frieza is stronger than the last time he came to earth, he might be afraid that if someone gets lucky, and both he and 18 dies, Marron would be alone.
Again, it's still stupid in one sense, but then again, if they can find someone else who can protect their child, I'd be all for sending her out to fight as well, even if she gets punked alongside everybody else.
One Strip! One Strip!@LOLY just a really strong Super Saiyan.
edited 30th Mar '15 9:36:32 PM by SonOfSharknado
My various fanfics.18: "Krillin. I am stronger than you. By so many orders of magnitude I lost count. I have a better chance of surviving than you do."
Krillin: "Pfft. I know I'm gonna die. Possibly in a horribly painful way. But I've died three times already, it's not that big a deal. But see, when I do die, I'd leave Marron alone if I was here guarding her and you were out fighting."
18: "You... have a point."
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariI have no idea what you're talking about Gojira. You didn't prove anything with the great ape.
If their daughter was in danger, 18 can clearly do a better job of protecting her.
It's wrong because the soldiers aren't endangering her daughter, and they've said that they need to fight hard to take care of the soldiers.
The most logical thing would be for 18 to be allowed to go on the frontlines. She's much stronger than Kuririn, much more likely to stay alive than Kuririn, and much less likely to let an enemy past them Kuririn.
If any soldier was going to defeat her or get past her, that same soldier would have fucking murdered Kuririn and then done that to 18 anyway. Being by Marron's side doesn't offer any more protection because none of the soldiers were going after her.
It simply makes no sense. If the fight is so important that Kuririn needs to get involved, 18 would be so much more useful. It'd minimize the threat to everyone to involve her.
Saying 18 should stay behind and protect Marron is exactly like the "hold the fort" excuse used in fiction to trick children/weak characters into staying behind. "I'm going out to fight on the frontline, but the real battle is here. It's really important you stay here and protect everyone, so that's why I'm trusting you". It's practically a stock phrase! Basically a variant of Stay in the Kitchen that uses protecting someone as the excuse to keep them out.
Because the fort isn't in danger unless the frontlines fall. That's why you put your fighters on the frontline to begin with!
Completely nonsensical in-universe. And even if it made sense in-universe, that completely ignores the out of universe decision to exclude 18 from the action.
It was an authorial decision to have 18 appear only to be fawn over how cool Kuririn was. It was an authorial decision that only men would be involved in any fighting capacity in this film. That's blatantly sexist.
18's only role now is to be Kuririn's waifu, doing as she is told and swooning at his manliness. It's pathetic.
The Boo arc gave her a bigger role than Kuririn, but it seems because Kuririn is a more nostalgic character she'll be shoved to the side so the fans can be pandered to seeing Kuririn do some fighting. I'd rather see the newer characters do that, especially one who has never really gotten to do that.
Didn't you see that video I posted pages ago of Goku turning into a Golden Great Ape? It showed that Vegeta's transformation into a Great Ape before going Golden was the norm, not an exception, since Goku did the exact same thing when he changed too.
Just watched the video. Goku's transformation was not the same as Vegeta's, he had one transformation sequence and had brown fur during the process which turned gold before he was finished.
Vegeta turned into a regular ape, dicked around for a bit, gained control and turned golden right before becoming a Super Saiyan 4. Goku was golden before he regained control.
So, that's why I think Super Saiyan 3 made the difference there. Goku, having possessed Super Saiyan 3, turned into a golden ape off the bat.
edited 31st Mar '15 1:25:55 AM by Saiga
Vegeta had control over the thing the entire time, he was just acting like that for old times sake. Do recall he's the only one who showed any control over his actions as a Great Ape, and is possibly the reason why Baby didn't immediately loose control the instant he turned into a Golden Great Ape. For all we know, any differences between Goku's and Vegeta's changes could be a result of the varied control over their Ape states and how Vegeta artificially entered the state without a tail. And please, the Super Saiyan 3 thing is based on just as many assumptions as what I'm saying, so it's no more right than this.
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!Vegeta being in control the whole time is a fan theory, the original doesn't make it clear. It's a hilariously awesome theory, but not a fact. Baby outright said that the Oozaru form was making Vegeta's mind rampage, not his own, which is why Baby could still control it. Vegeta's a rampaging beast, but Baby has the ability to control people against their will anyway so it doesn't matter. This would also mean that without Baby, Vegeta can't control the form at that stage.
The difference (and it's a HUGE one) is that I'm not claiming to have proved anything. I'm putting forth a theory that I believe based on what is seen in the anime itself. I don't mind people disagreeing, I was just explaining why I saw it that way.
I didn't say my theory was more right than yours. I'm just saying you haven't proven anything, and that you were wrong about one of the facts of the series itself.
You also haven't actually pointed any real assumptions that I'm basing this off. I'm basing it off facts (SS3 Goku having a gold tail + Goku transforming differently to Vegeta) and interpretations of those to come to that conclusion.
edited 31st Mar '15 1:48:52 AM by Saiga
In the Portuguese version (directly adapted from the Japanese), I clearly remember Vegeta in the Dark Dragon arc going "Ha, Kakarot, please! As if I could ever lose control in this state!". He said this while crushing SSJ 4 Goku in his hands. I'd honestly be surprised if Vegeta had genuinely lost control of Oozaru.
@Tobias Drake: I know I'm late to this point, but didn't Krillin use bukujutsu against Piccolo Jr.?
And in the original, he doesn't word it like that. He says the ape won't take his rationality, but before that has the slow "Ka... ka... rotto..." line which makes him start glowing. Pan says this is the same thing that happened with Goku regaining his rationality.
It's outright stated in the original that he lost, and regained, his rationality. Same with Baby's comments, who had the ability to actually see into Vegeta's mind. There's some small wiggle room in that Vegeta never confirmed himself what happened the second time, but his previous ability to control the form is never brought up, and it's absolutely not said he was in full control the entire time.
Can we add Piccolo in there as well? M-maybe Mr Boo, he's pretty cool yeah? Then you wouldn't even need to contrive it. With Goku and Vegeta off training and Goten/Trunks enjoying peaceful lives, those would be the strongest and most capable of handling any future threats.
edited 31st Mar '15 2:18:55 AM by Saiga
It's similar to an idea I had for a fanfic I'll never write where the first arc had all the Saiyans explore another realm, thinking that was where the villains were... then getting trapped there while the villains invaded Earth with them out of the way. They'd still have their own plot inside the realm, but it would give the other characters a reason to get involved that wouldn't beg the question "why don't the much stronger Saiyan characters just swoop in and solve everything?"
'course I just stole that idea from Bleach, even though Bleach didn't use it that way.
Except Vegeta had complete control over his actions when he was a Great Ape back in the Saiyan Saga, so why wouldn't he still have control over it in GT?
Stop stealing ideas from Bleach just because you want to bone Ichigo; let it go man, he will never love you.
edited 31st Mar '15 2:43:58 AM by Ssj3Gojira
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!It's not made clear. His ability to control the regular Oozaru state is never referenced in GT, it was probably just forgotten. Several people talk about Vegeta being unable to control the ape form, even before he transforms.
For an in-universe answer, he is receiving more Bruits Waves than used in normal Oozaru transformations. That could have made it uncontrollable for him.
Oh, he will.
edited 31st Mar '15 2:51:22 AM by Saiga

They don't need the power of love to do that. 18 can do it with her hands tied behind her back and blindfolded.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari