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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#13026: Mar 30th 2015 at 7:39:34 AM

Spoilers for Ro F are in.

Before he goes Golden, Freeza gets his ass kicked. He goes Gold and starts winning. It becomes clear that Golden Freeza has the same weakness as before(he has an issue with stamina fighting at max power). Goku tries to take advantage of this but gets beaten by Golden Freeza (though part of it was being caught off guard by Sorbet) Vegeta steps in and gives Goku a senzu and then fights Freeza instead. Vegeta is winning but then Freeza blows up Earth thus killing Vegeta(Goku survives because he's over hanging out with Whis while watching Vegeta fight and he made a barrier) Whis uses his power to go back 3 minutes in time so Goku can finish Freeza off with a Kamehameha before he gets to blow up Earth.

edited 30th Mar '15 7:39:55 AM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13027: Mar 30th 2015 at 7:41:40 AM

This is the second time that your counterpoint to something logical is to suggest something completely illogical. I mean, this and the "argument" you used against Future Bulma building a spaceship basically boils down to this:

"We could focus on our rocket technology to make one strong enough to get a few people to the Moon."

"Yeah or we could strap a pigeon's wings to a wail and get it to take us Mars."

One is feasible and the other is "The fuck are you smoking".

That's where we disagree. As far as I'm concerned, Super Saiyan being modular is "The fuck are you smoking". That it's canon doesn't necessarily mean it's good. It's ridiculous, it makes no sense, and it was never so much as hinted at before Goku and Vegeta simultaneously just decided it was.

The Cell Saga as a whole was the product of multiple revisions and doubling-back on the plot as Toriyama attempted to appease a friend who just plain didn't like most of the things in the arc. He hated 19 and 20 so they were replaced with 17 and 18. He hated 17 and 18 so they were replaced with Cell. He thought Semi-Perfect Cell was ugly as balls so he was very quickly done away with to get Cell to Perfect Form.

It was an already not-great idea made much worse by constant rail-jumping disrupting the narrative, which resulted in the existence of huge, gaping holes in the entire arc. Toriyama spent the entirety of Dragon Ball Writing by the Seat of Your Pants, but nowhere is it more glaring than here.

edited 30th Mar '15 7:47:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#13028: Mar 30th 2015 at 7:54:10 AM

Hmm.

So I read the full-color Dragon Ball things a while back. Just remembered.

Is it me, or is Chi Chi in the Saiyan arc/Z in general kinda out of character compared to herself in the original Dragon Ball?

I mean. She was a martial artist. Made it to the finals. The semi-finals even. I can't really see her being so against her son and husband fighting and practicing and training, at least as a way to stay in shape, if nothing else.

I would think she'd even join in a bit. Just a little. Lose some of the baby weight from carrying a half-saiyan and having to eat several times her own body mass a day.

I mean, I guess her joining everyone else and training with Kami would have been too much to ask for, but.

I dunno.

So, here's a question I've been meaning to ask, is it possible for someone to have an extremely high battle power/amount of ki but not know any techniques to use it with?

edited 30th Mar '15 7:55:37 AM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13029: Mar 30th 2015 at 7:55:56 AM

I don't mind you knowing damn near everything about Dragon Ball- it's quite convenient, in fact- but that doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it with the bullshit I just explained and "Everyone in this argument is wrong." Even if everyone in an argument is wrong, that doesn't mean you say it. You just explain the truth and leave it at that.

I was going to just leave this part alone, but on reflection, maybe my choice of words was a bit harsh. I apologize for that.

edited 30th Mar '15 7:56:07 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#13030: Mar 30th 2015 at 8:02:01 AM

I mean, martial arts is a way to learn discipline and control and stuff. The characters even mention this sometimes. It's kinda the point of ki control, with the fancy stuff being, well, useful, but.

I don't see why it's not something she'd want Gohan to learn?

...And, given how paranoid and stuff she's portrayed as in Z, I would think sensing energy would be a thing she would want to know how to do. Also flying and, hell, Instant Transmission.

I do kinda like how she's the one trained Goten mostly.

And, well. One of the uses of training in this series is the wax on wax off stuff. Doing household chores wearing big turtle shells or in high gravity or in a transformed state that burns energy that you have to keep under control.

Granted, Chi Chi fighting more would probably do things to Goku's monkey brain and they'd end up with a lot more kids.

edited 30th Mar '15 8:09:21 AM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13031: Mar 30th 2015 at 8:17:36 AM

We see very little of Chi-Chi before she and Goku marry, due in large part to Goku agreeing to marry her without any idea what that actually means, then running off to have his continuing adventures and only seeing her again after six years when she sought him out by entering the Tenkaichi Budokai. As a result of her precisely two appearances, one of which was more motivated by the desire to make Goku follow through on his promise than actually wanting to compete, it's hard to really get a bead on pre-marriage Chi-Chi's views of martial arts.

One thing that is very consistent about Chi-Chi is that she's firmly traditionalist. Her marriage to Goku is honor-bound, because he grabs her crotch during his innocent serial-molesting phaseLISTEN , she immediately decided that this act means he loves her and insisted that they marry.

Goku agreed because he thought she was offering to give him something and he likes being given stuff. He would only find out what marriage was years later at the Tenkaichi Budokai, when he took a moment out of Chi-Chi's outrage to ask Krillin - who defined it as, "Basically it means you live together," which Goku found acceptable. As for Chi-Chi, she spent the next six years of her life waiting for a fiancé she knew for approximately five minutes because he patted her crotch once and that meant they must wed, and only went to the Tenkaichi Budokai because it became apparent he wasn't coming back.

It's far from the perfect love story. She married him because he molested her, he married her because Krillin's explanation of marriage basically makes her a housemaid, and they lived miserably ever after with the exception of a few touching moments - because she married a man whose main contribution to the relationship to that point had been running off and abandoning the engagement for six years to pursue his own interests, and he married her with zero expectation or basic comprehension of actual marital responsibility.

Chi-Chi would show her traditionalism again in her treatment of Gohan; she wanted him to be a responsible and productive member of society, rather than an irresponsible flake like her husband. She also demonstrates it in her response to Super Saiyans - which kind of got screwed up in the English version due to differences in cultural values.

Blond hair doesn't occur naturally in Japan, but has become popular with youth gangs and the like. Dying one's hair blond is a sign of delinquency, and so when Goku and Gohan both came home with their hair blond, Chi-Chi naturally freaked out that Goku had made her son a delinquent. She has a similar reaction when Goten transforms for the first time, lamenting that another of her sons has become a delinquent. Since this cultural value doesn't exist in the U.S., the English translation changes her response to, "Oh no, another MONSTER in the family," which is much worse and paints her character in a terrible light.

edited 30th Mar '15 8:19:25 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#13032: Mar 30th 2015 at 8:27:35 AM

Yes, you have correctly identified the fucked up everything about everything.

I just mean, at the very least she could have been into Gohan learning Taichi or Qigong or something.

It's not like knowing martial arts has anything to do with being a productive member of society. It's a thing to know. For self-defense, for mind and body alignment, for self-control, for discipline.

I mean, yeah, it seems like the only thing Goku knows, for the most part, and he gets way too obsessed with it, but.

Equally.

I mean, if more people knew some of the energy blasts and ki control and stuff, the world might have been at least slightly safer. They might not have been able to beat a lot of the opponents or villains or monsters but it could have slowed some of them down and kept it from being as much of a slaughter.

That's actually a thing in Dragon Ball Online. I think it's a neat thing. Gohan wrote a book about Ki control and use and history. Pan took over Satan's worldwide online dojo and revamped it and implemented some ki control basics. Krillin restarted the Turtle School, Tien restarted the Crane School, Goten and Trunks started their own sword school.

For some reason, even though present Trunks never really did much with swords and.

Nevermind.

EDIT: I mean.

...I could even imagine Chichi going to Kami's to get strong enough to try to get Gohan back from Piccolo.

It wouldn't be all that different from her motivation for entering the tournament.

edited 30th Mar '15 8:58:20 AM by unnoun

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#13033: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:01:58 AM

This isn't confirmed, but apparently Freeza states his battle power became 1.37 million after four months of training, form unspecified. Hilariously contradictory.

Frieza: I am now as strong as my second form! Tremble before my power!

Goku: Uhh, even I know that's not right.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#13034: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:12:25 AM

I'm guessing she just didn't want her son to start martial arts at 3-4 years old. Notice how she does teach Goten martial arts when she has full reign over his education.

Later on, Gohan is already a few ranks above her in fighting proficiency. At that point, he should be the one setting his own training regime. He's the man in the house and all.

DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#13035: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:35:30 AM

So, my prediction about Toriyama retconning his first form into being the strongest may be coming true soon? [lol]

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#13036: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:43:35 AM

I'm laughing at most of the people being buttmad over Vegeta not winning this time.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#13037: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:44:37 AM

If Bra hasn't been conceived yet I will punch something though.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#13038: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:56:20 AM

By the time she's teaching Goten martial arts, though, Gohan's already fulfilling Chi-Chi's dream of having a son who becomes a scholar. He's abandoned his training and is focusing entirely on his studies, like she always wanted from him.

It's not uncommon for the first child to become the Vicarious Living child. The one upon whom all pressure is put to do the things the parents never got to do. That's the kid that's going to go to college, going to become a doctor or a lawyer, going to carry on the family name and inherit the family business and do everything the parents do or wish they did but better.

Parents tend to relax more with subsequent children, which is basically what Chi-Chi did with Goten.

edited 30th Mar '15 9:57:31 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#13039: Mar 30th 2015 at 9:57:02 AM

Again, why did people think Vegeta was going to be the focus hero? Watching the trailers, it pretty clear that this movie is all about Goku and Freeza having their big rematch. Vegeta is there, but it would seem odd to give him focus over Goku in a movie about Goku fighting Freeza.

All of that said, all I can think now is "SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY BE THERE FOR THE REMATCH OF THE CENTURY!!!" kind of stuff. Its all good fun.

edited 30th Mar '15 9:57:21 AM by Zeromaeus

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#13041: Mar 30th 2015 at 10:24:07 AM

[lol] In his defense, Trunks did get lucky. He beat Goten in the Tenkaichi Budokai! Vegeta lives in another's shadow; Trunks IS a shadow.

edited 30th Mar '15 10:25:42 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#13042: Mar 30th 2015 at 10:46:28 AM

Chichi spent at least a year training with a Super Saiyan without dying.

That's actually kinda impressive.

I mean, I guess Goten probably sparred with Trunks a little too.

But then again, he also didn't know how to fly until Gohan taught him.

...I mean. Again, I wonder why nobody taught Chichi how to fly. Or ki blasts or.

I mean, Goku did his first Kamehameha when his power level was 10. I suppose weird Saiyan biology could be just as responsible for his ease with picking it up as his actual power level, maybe they just have a better time of ki use than humans or something. I dunno. I know he was immune to bullets but that Master Roshi wasn't quite despite being 14 times more powerful at that point.

But it still bugs me when Chichi or Roshi has to use cars. I love the filler arc where Goku and Piccolo learn to drive. It is actually the best. Equally, though, it could have been a filler arc where Chichi learns how to fly. Or it could have been both.

I mean, heck, she could use the nimbus as a kid.

...I'm big on Mundane Utility I guess.

It's entirely possible that if I was in charge I would have Piccolo taking over the fashion industry with his clothes beam.

Buu can hit inanimate objects like rocks with his food beam and can make food like eggs in addition to candy, so. Goodbye world hunger. Well, except for the damn Saiyans and Buu himself with their metabolism eating everything around them.

Granted, I also sorta like that it seems like it took Goku going away for most of the characters to apply themselves like that. And that it seems like Gohan is the first to have the idea.

...Kinda wonder why Bulma and her dad didn't keep blueprints of those spaceships they made. Or the Scouter.

Or the Androids, actually.

I doubt Gero ever actually patented everything what with living in a cave and all.

edited 30th Mar '15 10:49:46 AM by unnoun

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#13043: Mar 30th 2015 at 10:50:38 AM

I'm just glad that both Goku and Vegeta have god powers now.

Also, I heard that there's an after-credits scene where Sorbet returns and says that Frieza losing is going all according to plan.

If this is real, what does this mean?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#13044: Mar 30th 2015 at 10:53:36 AM

What it means is that Sorbet secretly hated Freeza and wanted to see him getting owned again.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#13045: Mar 30th 2015 at 10:56:46 AM

It's all part of the plan to revive Frieza's Successor.

Next Time: Revival of C.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#13046: Mar 30th 2015 at 10:57:36 AM

Is this eventually going to come full circle with Revival of Revival of F?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#13049: Mar 30th 2015 at 11:09:01 AM

wait,does C stand for Cell or Cooler?


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